germans overall arn's good enough

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[deadbolt]

he's just sour cos i beat him in a 2v3 ;(

[Two]

tru dat.

Don't hate on the new guys please... just help him out mkay?

And tbh my post telling him to l2p was help, if he l2p he wouldnt be whining about the OP faction saying their UP.

[tomolyons]

Since you are so fond of it, the Sherman historically had tougher armor than the Panzer IV. The Panzer IV's 75mm gun was slightly superior to the Sherman 75mm gun, however the 76mm Sherman could destroy a Panzer IV quite easily. In game a Panzer IV with no doctrine, and a Sherman with no doctrine will come out about even, depending on who shot first.

ok mate where the hell did you get that from?? sherman tank havning better armour than a panzer? http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=65393 look at teh website and scroll down till you see a penatration chart its about the guns but you can also see about the ranges that they can penetrate at meaning how tough the armour was aswell. with the uppeed gun it can take a panzer on from front yes but what about the panther? it says that the sherman couldnt match a panther any way because of its sloping armour that it had? and tigers? american tank crews from ww2 say thet it would take 4 to 5 shermans to take out one tiger becuase they couldnt penatrate it from te front they had to get around it to kill it. and ive seen a tigers sheel bounce of a sherman front front on coh WTF??!?! oh cmon

[EliteGren]

Because this is NOT real life.
God.

[Killer344]

jeez, here we go again Lol.

[scrapking]

Tomolyons, there are a number of factors at work here against you.

For one, once you get to know the community...  and their smurfs, unfortunately...  your mileage may vary on who you are playing against.  There are a handful of players who are going to beat on most of the other players in this mod regardless of company development, vet, or PP.  Against players very new to the mod, it will be even worse.  

Secondly, remember it is in beta stage.  Things might be generally balanced, but right now is when a real assessment of T3 & T4 effectiveness is happening.  What is balanced with no doctrines in does not equate to the same thing with full doctrines in.  It is a work in progress.

I know you are fairly new to this mod.  I do not know what sort of vcoh ladder experience you have.  But honestly, you could have been ranked #1, and the transition to eir gameplay would have still thrown a hitch into your style.  There is an adjustment period.  Don't assume that something should be effective because it was in vcoh.  And even more importantly, don't assume that something should be effective in game because of some History Channel episode.

It has been the case in this mod's history that Axis have been played decisively more than Allies for a multitude of reasons.  It has been the case that Wehrmacht has been perceived as "easier to play", "more interesting" and generally stronger than Allied doctrines before T3 & T4 doctrines are introduced.  This is not a fact as much as it has been a sort of general consensus.  But what is a fact is that in terms of performance, amongst equally skilled players, both sides have performed relatively equally.  The overall state of balance, while not without its hiccups, is fairly even.

What you need most to do is accept that you are on a learning curve, with a certain portion of the community actively taking advantage of that.  Its not so important right now, because of the development stage we are in - but normally what I would tell someone in your shoes is to expect your first 20 games or so to be an opportunity for you to accomplish several important things:

1)  Develop your own EiR playstyle, experiment with different factions, different doctrines, different units.  Find what works for you.  If you have trouble with that, try to mimic what is working for someone else.  Ideally, find a few different things that you enjoy and can successfully implement.

2)  Develop you company above all else.  If you feel that you are behind the curve, go into games with a goal other than winning.  Gaining vet, gaining PP, gaining commander XP;  all of these supercede winning if your company is too far behind the development of other players.

3)  Learn the community.  Befriend those you wish to, get more than a few teammates with whom you coordinate well with.  Equally important, learn the players who are intending to prey upon you with any frequency, and avoid them.  Learn their smurfs too.  Learn who will give you a good game, and play with the level of sportsmanship you might expect.  Play those people more often.


And again, remember it is a work in progress.  What might seem OP today may be an afterthought tomorrow.  Change is everywhere.

I hope that you heed my advice and stick with it, there's a good deal of fun to be had if you endure the rough going early on.


[EDIT]  And how can I forget!?  WATCH REPLAYS!!!!  Your own especially to pick out what you could have done better, or differently, but those of others as well.  You can pick up some tricks you may not have thought of.

[Malevolence]

My personal learning curve was awful. I lost most of my games for a good long while before I learned what unit compositions work and which ones don't. Even after a hundred or more games in old EiR (before Reinforcements came out) my win:lose ratio was still around 50% because of how badly I got hammered in my earlier days. So at the very least don't get discouraged from playing because you lose a lot

[deadbolt]

My personal learning curve was awful. I lost most of my games for a good long while before I learned what unit compositions work and which ones don't. Even after a hundred or more games in old EiR (before Reinforcements came out) my win:lose ratio was still around 50% because of how badly I got hammered in my earlier days. So at the very least don't get discouraged from playing because you lose a lot

ive always maintaned a 2:1 win ratio, atleast 

[Baine]

NO U.


I know you sucked when you started playing!

[deadbolt]

NO U.


I know you sucked when you started playing!

i got 2000xp pershing with old school OBM FTW LOLOLOL

[Malevolence]

My personal learning curve was awful. I lost most of my games for a good long while before I learned what unit compositions work and which ones don't. Even after a hundred or more games in old EiR (before Reinforcements came out) my win:lose ratio was still around 50% because of how badly I got hammered in my earlier days. So at the very least don't get discouraged from playing because you lose a lot

ive always maintaned a 2:1 win ratio, atleast 

To be fair, I also sucked at normal CoH back then, and kept playing with crap teammates.

Except my first game ever, I think salan was my teammate... or maybe somebody else was. Oh well. That was like a year ago I don't remember

[AmPM]

Since you are so fond of it, the Sherman historically had tougher armor than the Panzer IV. The Panzer IV's 75mm gun was slightly superior to the Sherman 75mm gun, however the 76mm Sherman could destroy a Panzer IV quite easily. In game a Panzer IV with no doctrine, and a Sherman with no doctrine will come out about even, depending on who shot first.

ok mate where the hell did you get that from?? sherman tank havning better armour than a panzer? http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=65393 look at teh website and scroll down till you see a penatration chart its about the guns but you can also see about the ranges that they can penetrate at meaning how tough the armour was aswell. with the uppeed gun it can take a panzer on from front yes but what about the panther? it says that the sherman couldnt match a panther any way because of its sloping armour that it had? and tigers? american tank crews from ww2 say thet it would take 4 to 5 shermans to take out one tiger becuase they couldnt penatrate it from te front they had to get around it to kill it. and ive seen a tigers sheel bounce of a sherman front front on coh WTF??!?! oh cmon

Actually, penetration vs armor has to do with the velocity of the gun and the round used. The PANZER IV is not the same as the Panther or Tiger. IF you play EIR, you will find that unless you are a complete idiot, a Panther will beat a Sherman, as will a Tiger.

The Sherman tank and the Panzer IV were pretty evenly matched as they are in EIR.

[Malevolence]

The only large scale tank battles on the Western Front recorded that in similar numbers of Panthers against Shermans and their ilk, it was primarily the combatant who fired first that won the battle. And indeed it was usually the Americans due to superior optics.

[Mysthalin]

Too bad the german ammunition mostly had sand or concrete in it, rather than explosives.

Courtesy of the jews from the death camps. With love.

Let's also implement german soldiers running out of ammo. 2 Mags per grenadier .

[VERTIGGO]

Let's also implement german soldiers running out of ammo. 2 Mags per grenadier .

Um... grenadiers didn't use mags. The KAR98 takes single rounds.

(lol don't take it as an insult, it's just funny)

[deadbolt]

Too bad the german ammunition mostly had sand or concrete in it, rather than explosives.

Courtesy of the jews from the death camps. With love.

Let's also implement german soldiers running out of ammo. 2 Mags per grenadier .

and make tanks have to fill up with fuel ofcourse

[AmPM]

Let's also implement german soldiers running out of ammo. 2 Mags per grenadier .

Um... grenadiers didn't use mags. The KAR98 takes single rounds.

(lol don't take it as an insult, it's just funny)

The K98 uses a 5 round strip.

[Mysthalin]

Ty AmPM ^^.

[Smokaz]

Seeing as there is a sub-discussion in this thread themed around how to get into eirr and become competent or satisfied with your own performance I'd like to put forth the following claim(s)

1) that getting stomped, abused and cheesed mercilessily is the fastest way to grow the foundation for a strategic muscle to punch back at your opposition with
2) avoiding directly or indirectly harder opponents and tougher games is what Freud would call the golden paved way to mediocrity and being locked into playing a smaller amount of the total players for in the end uninspiring games
3) even if you don't actively try to beat those that beat you, getting beat enough will just magically transpire you to learn to counter or cheese them back
4) 1) is the best medicine against stacking, whining and becoming a vet whore

123 Dispute

[Malevolence]

Ty AmPM ^^.

Not to bust in on this happy reunion, but a clip is not a magazine.