Unit upgrade prices bugged?

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[Warlight]

Well, if you boost the cost of manpacked AT, dosn't that make Tanks more powerful? 

More costly, means less, thus tanks outnumber them even more.  Thus Tanks and vehicles should get raised in price too. 

It depends on the goal?.  Is the goal to make infantry fight infantry, and tanks fight tanks? 

Also, PE tank busters Shrecks have a manpower cost (you can only get them in tankbusters, and generaly only one).   Also don't PE shrecks do less damage, even with more penatration?  So pe shreks don't need a price boost, most tanks can shred the TB squads as it is, tank busts ned to scavange their kills.

[Killer344]

Well, if you boost the cost of manpacked AT, dosn't that make Tanks more powerful? 

More costly, means less, thus tanks outnumber them even more.  Thus Tanks and vehicles should get raised in price too.

Their new price will only hurt the companies that use Manpacked AT as their main AT.

[Warlight]

Well, if you boost the cost of manpacked AT, dosn't that make Tanks more powerful? 

More costly, means less, thus tanks outnumber them even more.  Thus Tanks and vehicles should get raised in price too.

Their new price will only hurt the companies that use Manpacked AT as their main AT.

I know, but shouldn't tanks get a price boost to .

[Unkn0wn]

Not necessarily although a decrease of the fuel starting amount may occur if we feel that it's necessary later on. In addition, as I mentioned earlier, I assure you that we will be monitoring the situation of light vehicles and address any serious issues with them (particularly when spammed).

[Baine]

The price change on the schreck was unneccassary imo. At least the cost on grenadiers. With 120 mun it would still cost as much as two Piats.

140 for 1 schreck in comparison to 2 RRs for 180 mun doesn't seem right to me. The increase on the RRs was needed, but the cost on the Schreck was too much :/

[Smokaz]

Maybe Stugs for wehrmacht will be making a impressive comeback out of need to have a counter to (primarily) anti infantry vehicles like the t17, quad and m8. It already does very well against the sherman for cost in a slug fest.

The only problem with this is if allies support their tanks/vehicles with their own manpacked AT.. which armor doctrine doesnt have atm, do they? So the extra penetration or AP rounds from armor vehicles are at least not backed by R-package airborne when you are facing armor doctrine.

Also maybe it will become more popular to back up your shreks with halftracks for tank shock escapes and fielding cheesewagons for vehicle blocking to buy your stuff time to deal damage to the vehicle or "get in position". These tactics are already powerful its just that you have to realize that you get a more powerful micro "toolset" for small population cost instead of just thinking "omg i get 3 less fighting pop".

Armor doctrine will still probably be good at outattritioning axis companies light on AT. P4-heavy companies will do well against these kinds of builds, blitzkrieg heat round charges to finish them off before they scoot away from repair.

Buying more stugs and upgun pumas might be useful against these kinds of companies.

[Sixpack]

How do you think that is possible, only with other at support can stugs be usefull to take on allied tanks. Or they will just get circled like marders.

More likely the atg backing up the light vehicle of the allies will just make short work of the stug or any other axis med tank.

And what is PE supposed to do?

[Mysthalin]

Use marders and LATHTs like they always have?

Oh and pl0x moar availability on hotchkisses. They're the new in thing with upgun!

[Sixpack]

More likly the upgunned atht Mysthalin.

[DerangedGerman]

Not to interrupt, but wouldn't Shrecks be the proper counter to light vehicle spam?

Edit: And yes, the AtHT is a rape machine. TREADBREAK FTW!

[Sixpack]

No, things like the Staghound or M16 anti air HT will just rape schrecks because of either suppresion or range, you will notice good allied players just kiting schrecks.

[Malevolence]

@ Deranged German

Not really. Now, as always in Retail and otherwise, the proper counter to light vehicle spam is a primary AT gun-like weapon and an infantry-based support anti-tank weapon. The infantry support anti-tank weapon can be poked and prodded at long range by light vehicles without any real fear of reciprocation due to its poor accuracy whereas the anti-tank gun can easily hit at long ranges, but close in loses the ability to target the light vehicle due to its speed and maneuverability.

Therefore, the two are perfectly complementary for dealing with light vehicles. The AT gun keeps them from messing around with your infantry-AT, and your infantry-AT keeps them from messing around with your AT gun.

Specifically we're talking about panzerschreks having only 35% base accuracy at long range with even worse accuracy due to the light vehicle dodge bonuses and inevitable cover bonuses that occasionally crop up. The AT gun is decently better at hitting the light vehicle at long range, whereas a panzerschrek at medium or short range has something on the order of 85% base accuracy and better, making it nigh undodgeable.

[Smokaz]

One thing that has always annoyed the living hell out of me both in vanilla and in EIRR, is how you can fake out an opponent as americans. Yes the Sticky is a subpar choice for AT option on its own, but if you are leading on a axis tank that thinks it can circlestrafe a 57mm the axis player has to consider the possiblity that any rifle squad no matter veterancy or anything MIGHT have a sticky bomb, which basically condemns the tank with engine damage to a guaranteed death either immediatly or in a short while. Even if he sees your bluff early game and takes a chance with a charging riflesquad he most likely wont be sure the next time a rifle squad charges and you can force him to back up. If some squads have and some squads dont, the mind game can be agonizing until it ends up with him backing away from any rifles within throwing range.

You don't have this issue with grenadiers: if they have a shrek you can see it. This issue of the rifleman sticky is what keeps most axis players from being as aggressive with their armor as the allied armor. (Exception here being 1/3 axis doctrines, blitzstormtroopers) Arguably paks have some of the same momentum (cant see them) but they dont cause engine damage.

Basically the underlying point here is that there are some game mechanics which disallow wehrmacht to play as aggressive with their armor as americans can in terms of being DISABLED and thus locked into a slow crawl to their death. You also have the problem that all three of the american doctrines are fielding double mines on their engineers while only terror are fielding them back. Im always spamming mines cause engine damaged tanks have to waste a repair or become victimized very quickly.

Just an idea for why it would be very slightly more difficult for wehrmacht to spam tanks and light vehicles back at americans. If wehrmacht could spam vehicles and tanks back it would be fair, but other than blitz they are at a mechanical disadvantage against the smart american player.

(When Im back from vacation the first US company I'm gonna toy with will be m1 carabine sticky spam)

[Wolster]

Wanted to play a few games before commenting on this one, so now i have & my Axis AT is being attritioned heavily, by mid game im currently out of AT units, allowing a walk over in the latter phase of games by US light/medium T17s/T18s/M10s/HTs etc...

Typically im finding US AT gun spam linking with the above vehicles compounding the problem, as these are being used to snipe my AT guns/Tanks etc..

This will only get worse with the repair buffs in the armoured Doctrine later in tiers & fuel advantages.

Also noticed any sort of heavy tank counter whilst dealing with a significant amount of the spam, has no chance to utilise its repair ability, as the front line is being overwhelmed during the quite long repair times necessary to get these giants back into the fray.

Please not im not asking for buffs or nurfs just commenting on my recent field experiances.

[DasNoob]

What is your build?

[Wolster]

Im using Blitz - no upgrades as yet

Build

4 x P4  / (switch 2 P4s for a Panther now and then) all skirted & repairs
1x Stug +skirts
1x Bike
4xStorms (1using double Schreck, 3using Stg+bundle)
2xKCH (fausts)
8xVolks(2 using MP44s)
2xPaks
1xMtr
2xHMG
4xGren(2 using LMG)


Typically (when the PPs from the losses accumulate sufficently) i will switch to double Tiger, freeing up munitions from P4 upgrades to get another Storm with double schrecks, & fuel upgrades to get 2 P4s alongside.

[DasNoob]

Buying a panther is a wise choice.  Also, I used to run a duel pak start AND have additional... might want to un-upgrade a strom and get a 3rd pak.

[Wolster]

I no what your saying with the changes, but i must admit im abit gutted at the moment.

I chose Blitz with a view to be the Whermachts mobile formation, pretty soon ill be forced to sit behind a static Pak screen with support weapon spam, & if i wanted this style of play I would have gone Defensive.

[CafeMilani]

Im using Blitz - no upgrades as yet

Build

4 x P4  / (switch 2 P4s for a Panther now and then) all skirted & repairs
1x Stug +skirts
1x Bike
4xStorms (1using double Schreck, 3using Stg+bundle)
2xKCH (fausts)
8xVolks(2 using MP44s)
2xPaks
1xMtr
2xHMG
4xGren(2 using LMG)


Typically (when the PPs from the losses accumulate sufficently) i will switch to double Tiger, freeing up munitions from P4 upgrades to get another Storm with double schrecks, & fuel upgrades to get 2 P4s alongside.

every vehicle baised company rapes u

[AmPM]

So.....its basically like trying to run a Sherman company, except your P4 actually will win a fight? Try something like

4 STuGs
2 Panther
+ PAKs and Schreks.

Or if its light vehicles you are worried about, Ostwinds still work.