What is your biggest issue with EIRR?

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[Unkn0wn]

Some of you may already be familiar with this type of 'developer question'.
But for those of you who are not, let me give you a brief elaboration...

We are asking each and every one of you, actively involved community members, what you perceive as the biggest problem in EIRR today. This can be anything ranging from 'blobs' to 'unit X being overpowered' but mind you that we are only interested in knowing your BIGGEST problem. We do not want a summary of everything that bothers you. You are allowed to post possible solutions you see to this issue but when doing so ensure that the actual issue is easy to recognise in your post.

Please only post once and try to post only one (big) issue.
Stick to the question, feed back should only be in response to this post and not to each other's opinion

If you waste your chance to provide us with direct input by posting something like 'recoilless rifles are too cheap'  we will naturally assume that you have NO issues with the modification other than some minor pricing ones. So look at the bigger picture, this is your chance to point us towards what you perceive as a 'real problem' that has not yet been addressed/is not getting addressed .

Fire away, stick to the bolded guideline, posts violating this guideline will be removed.

[Crono]

The strength of veterancy.  Even though it has a cost associated with it, its still overpowered for all levels.  Frankly, when a unit becomes vet 3 it literally has an "I win" button over whatever its designed to fight.  Take a vet 3 double lmg gren squad. 
Grenadiers (1.0)
-Vet1 Regeneration (0.028)
-Vet2 Accuracy 1.15, Received Accuracy 0.9, Received damage 0.85,
-Vet3 Health 1.1, Cover ability*, Damage 1.2
This is ridiculous.  Especially the cover system, which I have run into several times.  If you create a persistent game around this model, and then make the units nigh unkillable at vet levels, whats the point?  Or does it come down to the unit surviving long enough to kill some stuff, take some damage, and the escape?  If vet levels were designed with the point of keeping the units alive, then do the vet appropriate for good players, so they keep their units, and bad players lose them.  Yes, complaints will occur with this, but it also then justifies a player spending the time to improve themselves.  With your current version, a player is rewarded for being bad and spamming units.  This is not good gameplay, and just plains irritates people.  Then again, a model like does appeal to some players, but those who lose in this model are disenfranchised and will just leave to go back to vanilla, where they can win games.

This is all I have to say, please share your thoughts devs.

[Draken]

My wishlist:

1. More devs in Euro time zone
2. less dodges in launcher
3. less super heavy tanks (jags, kts) for axis.

[Wolster]

My axis heavy tanks being outclassed by a measly bunch of airborne RRs, & the lack of suitable cost effective counters to wipe them off the map, due to their massive survivability.

[pqumsieh]

My biggest issue is centered around some of the immaturity within the community. People responding poorly to balance discussion, players taking things too seriously at times (myself included I suppose) and the overall abundance of self interested players. People are going to have differing views, granted, but it just feels like a zoo at times.

So I guess the lack of moderation/guide lines are my biggest issue.

PQ

edit: AH, and jerks who join a game and then either take 20 hours to ready up, or 20 hours to join the game, and do it constantly. Its fine if its once in a while, but every fucken game...give me a break. I won't name names, but its just disrespectful imo.

[Sach]

My issue relates to new players, waiting for games and old players who should know better.

1. Bitching about how no one will join your game and dodgers. Don't stack in a 2v2, either make it 3v3 and grab a newb so you and your buddy can play together still and other people will join. Or grab a random for a 2v2.

2. Stomping newbs. Whats the point? Tank rushing newbies. 88s on RTC against newbs. Arty spamming newbs, just general gimmickry. When I convince someone to come ply EIR I don't want their first game to be against that sort of shit.

3. More people. We need more people. The above doesn't help at all so stop doing it. Salan/Lucifer at some point I think we need to get a version of EIR that will remain fairly unchanged and have a purpose and say 'this is the game.' Go on a massive publicity drive. Shoutcasts/posting on relicnews, whoever got that add in the wins streak good stuff. We need to make something organised between 3/4/5 of us to really draw people in. IMO everyone who plays CoH should be playing this mod and I would lead the above but not until the bullshit stops.

[wildsolus]

smurfing

[Killer344]

Smurfers, Smurfers and Smurfers, oh yeah, and the dodgers.

[anthony210]

The large amount of off maps in a game.

Solution:  Make all but a select few unit based and limited so we dont see one person with 10+ off maps in a game.

That and smurfing/dodging is a huge issue.  A good solution would be some form of automatch.

[salan]

people making un-tested assumptions.

It's like playing after the last patch.  say I am playing german, and I am up against a brand new squad, an airborne medic team for instance.  Now I go into this game, get beat up, lose my wits and rage quit, spewing as much profanity and insanity as I can on the way out.  Basically showing how absolutely juvenile I am.

I blame any and all possible outcomes of that game on the fact that the airborne medic team is broken, over powered and makes the allied players invincible in almost all aspects.   I say there were bugs with it, stating that the squad is broken and not designed properly, and that the mods, and devs, are retards for implementing something that is so grossly over powered in the first place.



.. things like this is 100% assumption on the players part, it results in an uneducated person making crazy comments that are untrue, and extremely volatile.  

First to approach the actual example, as if it was a true example of someones stupidity, lets assume that its a new unit.  How would a new unit in the game be broken for playing the style it was?  it wasn't there before, what are we judging our opinions on?  definitely not a pre-conceived notion.  and in the airborne medics sense, there was a change in how it worked, originally it did not lock down.  But this change was not to fix a bug.  It was never designed to lock down.  The design documentation itself NEVER stated MUST LOCK DOWN TO HEAL.  Therefore it was created successfully in the manner it was communicated.  Soon after release, like an hour or two, we realized it wasn't game play we wanted to promote to allow them to heal on the run.  And I stayed up well into the night fixing a lock down state into the unit. So If I was a player, and making the argument I did above, was I correct in my assumption that the unit was broken?  no, i was not.


Secondly, if this assumption is to be followed through in showing how absurd it really could have been if I had made it lets also assume that I am to lazy to look at what the squad actually does, and that I take my own inability to play the game out of the equation and blame it solely on a functionality that I missunderstand and simply dislike.

The interesting thing about this would have been that the airborne medic team at release was only healing for 1 hit point every 5 seconds.  A triage would heal for 2.5 hitpoints a second or so.  A medpack for 1 hitpoint a second.  A CCS for somewhere in between.

So in all real arguments about the case my assumptions have led me to believe I know how something was designed, and how strong it was, when in fact it probably didn't change a single fights outcome one way or another, as it was completely ineffective in its initial deployment.  

If anything I could make a correct argument in stating that it might not be working as intended unless it was only suppose to be used for after fight healing, and not in the middle of it fighting.  but that depends on how the staff meant it to function, not on what I wanted it to do.

simple assumptions cause issues, if you want to be concerned about an ability or unit.  Do your research.  Do some testing, find out how it actually works, how it was intended to work.  Prove that its not functioning as intended, or that it is too effective or not effective enough..  one thing we do at eirr is FIX things we need to.

that is what i find to be the biggest issue with EIRR.. because one thing you will find with EIRR is we don't leave things months on end before fixing them, usually

[Groundfire]

you know, most of these issues stem from a players personality, or the fact that they may be a big fish in a small pond. bigger player base would delute this.

My issue: We need more (educated) players, that dont play 3 games and leave cause of stomps.

My brother and good friend might still be playing this if they didnt get they're balls stomped on by smokaz, gamesguy, and elitegren they're first game.

My issue relates to new players, waiting for games and old players who should know better.

3. More people. We need more people. The above doesn't help at all so stop doing it. Salan/Lucifer at some point I think we need to get a version of EIR that will remain fairly unchanged and have a purpose and say 'this is the game.' Go on a massive publicity drive. Shoutcasts/posting on relicnews, whoever got that add in the wins streak good stuff. We need to make something organised between 3/4/5 of us to really draw people in. IMO everyone who plays CoH should be playing this mod and I would lead the above but not until the bullshit stops.

^^ This is the kind of attitude we need. Stable game, advertisements/publicity, high end players need to recruit other high end players and play with them so they dont scare the smaller fish off.

[Tymathee]

I agree with Salan....

[Theonepower777]

My biggest concern is seeing those 'balance guru's' start an argument with you after you mention advantages or disadvantages of a certain unit or ability. We can voice our opinion's, we don't need someone to shoot us down every 5 min just because you've gone over stats again and again.
 
Another thing that stems from this is player vs player attitude. Not everyone here has time to learn about balance, stats or patches, so don't expect us to know it by heart, in the end it's all about player appeal and making it fun and easy.

[Warlight]

Partly when things get changed by suprise, without notice or reason given. 

Well actualy thats most of it, being powerless to effect the balance or discisions in a game I like.  But, you know what they say, too many chefs ruins the stew.  (I think) 

Just give the healing scout car back to all the PE factions, please.

[sgMisten]

Overcomplication of the game mechanics. We went from 2 major, easily understandable and intuitive disabling conditions (suppression->infantry and engine damage->vehicles) to a whole gamut of anti-inf, anti-veh, AoE, targeted, ability activated disablers.

The more complicated a game gets, the harder it is for a new player to understand and get into the game. Plus there is less emphasis on tactics and more on understanding and utilising these fancy abilities.

[roflmao]

Unfriendliness to new players.

Everything from unlocking doctrines, gaining vet, getting good teammates, understanding what a good company layout is, etc, is really hard. I've been with this mod since alpha (before OF even existed), and I still don't get the hang of it, heh.

Tis a great mod though .

[Mysthalin]

Not enough moderation on the forums :
Trolling, flaming, etc. should be moderated, perpretators punished with a break.
Not simply a warning and a lock of a thread. Clean out the thread, hand out some bans, let the people cool off.

[Detrian]

-The community being so small it's become a ridiculous unmoderated circlejerk which in turn scares new players away (more of an in launcher issue)

-A flawed feedback system that takes potentially wrong advice on how to tune stuff from players who in fact wish to harm opposite faction balance (cause EIR is serious business, see above).

-Balance stuff like artillery/AT costs which are actually being worked on so hey.

And:

Stuff I will cut out for the sake of not having a gigantic quote.

So If I was a player, and making the argument I did above, was I correct in my assumption that the unit was broken?  no, i was not.

Yes I would, because "broken" is also slang for "overpowered" and this is actually a dumb semantics issue disguised as something important.

simple assumptions cause issues, if you want to be concerned about an ability or unit.  Do your research.  Do some testing, find out how it actually works, how it was intended to work.  Prove that its not functioning as intended, or that it is too effective or not effective enough..  one thing we do at eirr is FIX things we need to.

Which links nicely to my next issue: Profoundly, ridiculously poor/outdated documentation on absolutely everything.

[Two]

How doctrines with units turn into just spam those units. They should just supplement your normal army.

[NightRain]

Stomps. Who likes to play a game with absolutely no chance of winning? I bet no one. People who stomp say that you learn when you play vs good players, you only learn that getting stomped isn't fun at all thus most new players become dodgers, then they get flamed and teased...then they simply leave because they lose interest in getting stomped and beated in every game they try.

Old players usually play together because they know one another and like to play with one another, this surely causes things that are considered as 'stack' and 'noob stomp'. Now that we have STATS clearly visiable people avoid playing with people with big - in their score. Sure who wants to play with a loser? Then come some royal people who want to help these new players to play better but how long will they continue doing it? I got no idea, never been helped with one since a lot of players come from the USA. Not many Europeans who guide newbies etc.

The small player base usually is caused by the stomps and then from the fact that older players doesn't want to play with them. This leads to a thing that KILLS Forums. I've been in a Forum before with a TIGHT Community. If the 'pros' dont want to play with new players and only goes with their buds or with those they know well new players are left out. Once the new players are left out they feel themselves ignored and leaves either for OMG or then just goes back to VCoH. If people were to accept more people to play with the tight community curse would disappear and new people would flow into the community.

If you know new players, take them with you to play with them not only with your old veteran comrade. Though I tend to play with people who have microphone I haven't minded TOO much if I have to play with someone against a big ass stomp where I know that our troops wont even make it out from the spawn without getting utterly raped by whatsoever.