[WM] Panzer IV

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[Tymathee]

shut up about the P4, hellcats and churhils are the problem. (m10 and light vehicle spam too, but thats just becouse of retarded screck price)

use other AT? in my pe company i rarely use schrecks for at and only bring them out when I need to, other wise, 50mm's and marders for me! and hte occasional panther

[LeoPhone]

shut up about the P4, hellcats and churhils are the problem. (m10 and light vehicle spam too, but thats just becouse of retarded screck price)

use other AT? in my pe company i rarely use schrecks for at and only bring them out when I need to, other wise, 50mm's and marders for me! and hte occasional panther

and il say AGAIN.... i play wehr. so no marders and 50mm hts.
i use 4 paks, but paks r not enough and not always on the field(and it shouldnt be necesarry to use paks only)

p4s die vs normal m10s or hellcats, (and churhils)
panthers die vs vet hellcats(those are much more common than panthers)
shrecks are useless ofcourse, only other thing is a geschutzwagen, but it is VERY VERY slow

[RikiRude]

you should always have a pak on the field backing up any tank/schrecks you have. you out range a hellcat with your pak. get a spotter and if you think a hellcat is in ambush mode push infantry in front of your assault and find it.

[LeoPhone]

(and it shouldnt be necesarry to use paks only)

you should always have a pak on the field backing up any tank/schrecks you have. you out range a hellcat with your pak. get a spotter and if you think a hellcat is in ambush mode push infantry in front of your assault and find it.

and if i dont have paks on the field??

[Sharpshooter824]

Now you know how US armor feels Leo, relying completely on a 57mm for AT, M10s and Hellcats dont count as real AT considering they are a 10 pop cap tank destroyer.
So stop whining that you have to have a pak on the field for your AT and be glad you even have handheld AT, even if it is expensive

[LeoPhone]

im not glad i can waste 140 muni to get pissed off becouse of failschreck

[AmPM]

The schrek is not fail, your use of it fails.

I look forward to carmageddoning your men some more.

[Smokaz]

P4 is not a dedicated anti-tank tank, its more like supporting AT. It's good at killing rangers, riflemen, mgs, mortars, flanking 57mms and killing them. Its only with doctrinal buffs it truly starts beating up american armor, it doesnt have that a easy time against m10s and shermans before it gets barrels, gs or hr.

I remember getting my entire core raped except for my P4 because jack's m8 just danced around a house and murdered my mortar and mgs.

[VERTIGGO]

Where do you get 13? just throwing in 3 extra for the heck of it? RR damage is 62.5, P4 health is 600

Go read what bonuses skirts grant against RRs.

issue becomes the difference between handhelds that outrange the tank

35 range on RRs, 40 on P4. Airborne Elite, everyone knows, is broken, and will be fixed soon.

fire super fast

7-8 seconds reload. 5 on P4.

never miss and almost always penetrate

They do miss, just their scatter angle is too low .
And they don't always penetrate.


All I can say is - try them out yourself, and see how you like them.

I see what you mean about the skirts bonus.

The difference is like smurf said, the P4 is missing half of his shots, while the RRs misses still hit, and the .1s fire time means that the AB just steps in, fires off their rounds and runs away. They can continue to do that because the P4 can't fire on the move for crap. So, even if it takes 7 seconds for reload, they fire instantly, which is similar to "super fast".

So, for every engagement, provided the P4 is standing still, a single AB squad does an average of 140 damage, while the P4 (if it gets a shot off every time) averages 39.5 to 55.45 dmg on a combined health of 840. All things considered, the AB kills the skirted tank in 4 unaided attacks, and the P4 has killed 2 to 3 AB, or done 150-220 dmg spread across them. This is a range from the P4 hitting one man each hit to hitting one and splashing on two others with every shot.

Reload time is basically meaningless, because the AB isn't just sitting there. They can move and stop to fire in a split second, while the P4 has to remain stationary just to get any good hits.

[Demon767]

I have no Shreks in my Company.

[fallensoldier7]

Vertiggo I never have problems micro-ing my PIV against AB.  Put your infantry support in front of your PIV and the AB won't be able to just pop in and out, getting free shots at you.  2 gren squads are enough support to ward off AB and rush AT guns that aren't supported by MGs/riflemen.  Against elite infantry your PIV will pretty much be constantly backing up and kiting.  Even though the accuracy is bad compared to staying stationary, you will get way more shots if you continuously kite than if you sit there and let the AB hit you.

So 2 things: support your PIVs and always kite.

[VERTIGGO]

I know how to kite, in fact that seems to occupy most of my time. And of course I'd love to dedicate 2 lmgs to protect my tank at all times... but that's not the point. Why does the "best anti-infantry tank" in the game have to be guarded by 10 pop worth of infantry? That same 10 pop is the M10 that rushes in at mach 12, crushing 8 grens and finishing off the P4 like it was a ham sandwich. lol... ham sandwich.

[jackmccrack]

You don't have to guard your tanks, but it always helps to have support. Ya know?

[Tymathee]

P4's ahhhh....

[fallensoldier7]

Why does the "best anti-infantry tank" in the game have to be guarded by 10 pop worth of infantry? That same 10 pop is the M10 that rushes in at mach 12, crushing 8 grens and finishing off the P4 like it was a ham sandwich. lol... ham sandwich.

Not guarded, but supported.  What's wrong with supporting your units?  If you've got a pak and 2 squads of grens next to your PIV then you have a very flexible and effective attack/defend force.  That's way more effective than a PIV by itself.  Besides, if you aren't using your pop to support your PIV then what are you using your other units on?

[TheDrunkenSmurf]

Why does the "best anti-infantry tank" in the game have to be guarded by 10 pop worth of infantry? That same 10 pop is the M10 that rushes in at mach 12, crushing 8 grens and finishing off the P4 like it was a ham sandwich. lol... ham sandwich.

the panzer IV is not the best anti infantry tank
the not upgunned sherman is a much better anti infantry tank because

  - it has a bigger and better splash damage
  - it has to fight 4 men squads instead of 6 men
  - it does not fear homing missles like RR

the churchil MKVI is a much better anti infantry tank too because

  - very hard to hit and penetrate by hand held axis AT
  - broken tankshock
  - mineclearer make it invulnerable to mines and make it crushing infantry easy
  - much health

[AmPM]

Why does the "best anti-infantry tank" in the game have to be guarded by 10 pop worth of infantry? That same 10 pop is the M10 that rushes in at mach 12, crushing 8 grens and finishing off the P4 like it was a ham sandwich. lol... ham sandwich.

the panzer IV is not the best anti infantry tank
the not upgunned sherman is a much better anti infantry tank because

  - it has a bigger and better splash damage
  - it has to fight 4 men squads instead of 6 men
  - it does not fear homing missles like RR

Except it has no Skirts, and still has to fear homing Schreks and fausts.

[TheDrunkenSmurf]

it does not need skirts because the chance to get a penetrating hit off is on 0.307
compared to 1 of RR

and that dice gets only on the roll when you have very bad micro and can not manage to kite the grens with their huge aim time

[AmPM]

No, the chance to penetrate is 0.878 with a schrek vs sherman.

The Wind Up time only causes a problem if you try to run them over.

[TheDrunkenSmurf]

the chance to penetrate is different to the chance to hit and to penetrate

the last case is 0.35*0.878 is 0.307 i hope my formulation is clear now

the chance to get a penetrating hit with RR to unskirted p4 is 1