Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed

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[Tymathee]

i think this has nothing to do with the allied mortars and more to do with squad size/health.
sure an allied shell does all that damage, but often times when a shell lands it wont kill any of the gren squad, itll just damage them, when axis mortar shots land it usually ends up gibbing one person.

I just said why. Grens have 90 health, if it does 40 damage, it'll only do half the hit. Rifles have 55, 36 is more than half.

can one of you dorks do a quick write up of health on a per member basis of each faction and compare it to the mortar damage they would be receiving?

i mean dork in the nicest way possible =)

Did I kinda just do that? Rifles = 55, Rangers and AB = 65
Volks 60, grens 90
pzgrens i think are 55-60
i think that tommies are 60-65? i forget.

Look it up yourself. http://www.coh-stats.com/factions/

[Malevolence]

Tym grens have 80 health, storms have 90

[CafeMilani]

i think this has nothing to do with the allied mortars and more to do with squad size/health.
sure an allied shell does all that damage, but often times when a shell lands it wont kill any of the gren squad, itll just damage them, when axis mortar shots land it usually ends up gibbing one person.

I just said why. Grens have 90 health, if it does 40 damage, it'll only do half the hit. Rifles have 55, 36 is more than half.

Did I kinda just do that? Rifles = 55, Rangers and AB = 65
Volks 60, grens 90
pzgrens i think are 55-60
i think that tommies are 60-65? i forget.

Look it up yourself. http://www.coh-stats.com/factions/
[/quote]

that doesnt matter because the rate of fire is too slow that it can hit 2 times.
if a ally mortar hits a gren squad directly, it usually hits another time, if the first shot suppresses or not.

[wildsolus]

wow aloha

if the wehr mortar hits the american infantry it seems to almost always suppress so you can get a 2nd devastating shot off.

doing that with the american mortar, even though it shoots faster, is always by chance because the first shot tends to either kill 1 man or take off a good chunk of the squads health (grens/storms) but doesn't suppress.

[CafeMilani]

magic word: rate of fire.

axis mortar doesnt hit allied infantry often

ally fanbois should know that :/

[Sach]

holy shit Aloha has opened my eyes. All this time people have been using the axis mortar more than the allied mortar because they thought it was better and they were wrong! Years and years and thousands of players playing EIR and they all mistakenly thought the axis mortar more than the allied one!

Quick Aloha, tell us more! Rifles are actually better than volks at long range right? 30 cals suppress more than mg42s right? Pershings will beat a Tiger 1 on 1 right?

[wildsolus]

first hit suppression > rate of fire

[CafeMilani]

bullshit.

this happens like every 5th game.

[DasNoob]

Aloha you are 2 seconds away from getting banned from balance forums FYI.

COOL IT.

[Tymathee]

Allied Suppression = 0.025

Axis mortar = 0.07

whats that, 3 times better suppression?

PE Mortar does the same and allied mortar does the same suppression as the ami one.

[gamesguy2]

Did I kinda just do that? Rifles = 55, Rangers and AB = 65
Volks 60, grens 90
pzgrens i think are 55-60
i think that tommies are 60-65? i forget.

Look it up yourself. http://www.coh-stats.com/factions/

AB are 70, grens are 80, PGs are 55, tommies are 65.

Allied Suppression = 0.025

Axis mortar = 0.07

whats that, 3 times better suppression?

Allied mortar also gets 2x suppression modifier at small aoe range, which is the only range you will suppress anything at.  So its 0.05 vs 0.07, which, btw, is not enough to suppress anything one hit.  Since infantry have a suppression threshold of 0.08

[Illegal_Carrot]

first hit suppression > rate of fire

It takes 3 81mm shells at close range to suppress a Rifle squad, 4 for Tommies, and that's not taking their suppression recovery into account.

[wildsolus]

so if the allied mortar is superior to the axis, how come allied support spam fails so badly? mg42 that good?

[Tymathee]

Allied mortar also gets 2x suppression modifier at small aoe range, which is the only range you will suppress anything at.  So its 0.05 vs 0.07, which, btw, is not enough to suppress anything one hit.  Since infantry have a suppression threshold of 0.08

yea but how often to you use mortars at short range? If infantry get that close, you try and get that mortar out of there.

[Tymathee]

so if the allied mortar is superior to the axis, how come allied support spam fails so badly? mg42 that good?

'

dunno if you're being sarcastic, but if you aren't, yes the mg42 and the pak also are that good.

[wildsolus]

one could argue that the AT gun is superior because it can get AP rounds and the pak can not move in cloak anymore (unless defensive) and only gets 1 shot in cloak.

[Illegal_Carrot]

I never got why everyone thought that Allied mortars were so much worse. The extra range on the Wehr 81mm (which the Allied mortar gets at vet 1 anyways) is situational, and at best a crutch, while the extra damage/ROF on the 60mm Allied is always effective, and much more useful.

On the semi-related note of support weapons, I also don't find the Axis ones to be so much greater than the Allied ones, which everyone makes them out to be. The PaK is a little better than a vanilla 57mm, but I'd take a doctrine-buffed (AB/Inf) 57 over a PaK any day.
It's a similar start with HMGs: the 42's extra range is what makes it better; the extra suppression is negligible.
In either situation I don't think AP rounds should be counted, as it's a limited use, purchased ability, rather than passive stats/doctrine unlock

[fallensoldier7]

In practice (I always use double mortar call-ins), the extra range lets me set-up, barrage, undeploy, and move much easier with the Wehr than the American mortar.  Let's put it this way: when you use that method with the Wehr mortar, you can always be out of range of enemy mortars, but if you do it with the American mortar, you have to do it within the range of the Wehr mortar, making it a bit riskier.  Still, if you do it correctly you shouldn't be hit by opposing mortars (unless they've got a spotter).  Despite all of this, the mortars are pretty much equal.

It's a similar start with HMGs: the 42's extra range is what makes it better; the extra suppression is negligible.

I would take an MG42 10/10 because of the suppression.  Damage is nice, but I don't need to kill something faster if it can't fight back because of it being pinned.

[gamesguy2]

Allied mortar also gets 2x suppression modifier at small aoe range, which is the only range you will suppress anything at.  So its 0.05 vs 0.07, which, btw, is not enough to suppress anything one hit.  Since infantry have a suppression threshold of 0.08

yea but how often to you use mortars at short range? If infantry get that close, you try and get that mortar out of there.

The small range aoe as in where the shell lands, it has nothing to do with how far away its fired.

Basically when the US mortar lands on your head it does 2x suppression.

[Baine]

Can we stop this now, it has been pointed out several times that the allied mortar is fine.