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Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed
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Topic: Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed (Read 9315 times)
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Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
Re: Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed
«
Reply #20 on:
August 16, 2009, 12:49:27 pm »
Quote from: RikiRude on August 16, 2009, 12:03:20 pm
i think this has nothing to do with the allied mortars and more to do with squad size/health.
sure an allied shell does all that damage, but often times when a shell lands it wont kill any of the gren squad, itll just damage them, when axis mortar shots land it usually ends up gibbing one person.
I just said why. Grens have 90 health, if it does 40 damage, it'll only do half the hit. Rifles have 55, 36 is more than half.
Quote
can one of you dorks do a quick write up of health on a per member basis of each faction and compare it to the mortar damage they would be receiving?
i mean dork in the nicest way possible =)
Did I kinda just do that? Rifles = 55, Rangers and AB = 65
Volks 60, grens 90
pzgrens i think are 55-60
i think that tommies are 60-65? i forget.
Look it up yourself.
http://www.coh-stats.com/factions/
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Quote from: nikomas on October 04, 2012, 09:26:33 pm
"I want proof!"
"I have proof!"
"Whatever, I'm still right"
Dafuq man, don't ask for proof if you'll refuse it if it's not in your favor, logic fallacy for the bloody win.
Malevolence
Donator
Posts: 1871
Re: Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed
«
Reply #21 on:
August 16, 2009, 01:00:05 pm »
Tym grens have 80 health, storms have 90
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CafeMilani
Aloha
Posts: 2994
Re: Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed
«
Reply #22 on:
August 16, 2009, 01:12:21 pm »
Quote from: Tymathee on August 16, 2009, 12:49:27 pm
Quote from: RikiRude on August 16, 2009, 12:03:20 pm
i think this has nothing to do with the allied mortars and more to do with squad size/health.
sure an allied shell does all that damage, but often times when a shell lands it wont kill any of the gren squad, itll just damage them, when axis mortar shots land it usually ends up gibbing one person.
I just said why. Grens have 90 health, if it does 40 damage, it'll only do half the hit. Rifles have 55, 36 is more than half.
Did I kinda just do that? Rifles = 55, Rangers and AB = 65
Volks 60, grens 90
pzgrens i think are 55-60
i think that tommies are 60-65? i forget.
Look it up yourself.
http://www.coh-stats.com/factions/
[/quote]
that doesnt matter because the rate of fire is too slow that it can hit 2 times.
if a ally mortar hits a gren squad directly, it usually hits another time, if the first shot suppresses or not.
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wildsolus
Donator
Posts: 807
Re: Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed
«
Reply #23 on:
August 16, 2009, 01:16:05 pm »
wow aloha
if the wehr mortar hits the american infantry it seems to almost always suppress so you can get a 2nd devastating shot off.
doing that with the american mortar, even though it shoots faster, is always by chance because the first shot tends to either kill 1 man or take off a good chunk of the squads health (grens/storms) but doesn't suppress.
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lol
lol x2
CafeMilani
Aloha
Posts: 2994
Re: Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed
«
Reply #24 on:
August 16, 2009, 01:27:16 pm »
magic word: rate of fire.
axis mortar doesnt hit allied infantry often
ally fanbois should know that :/
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Sach
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1211
Re: Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed
«
Reply #25 on:
August 16, 2009, 01:32:18 pm »
holy shit Aloha has opened my eyes. All this time people have been using the axis mortar more than the allied mortar because they thought it was better and they were wrong! Years and years and thousands of players playing EIR and they all mistakenly thought the axis mortar more than the allied one!
Quick Aloha, tell us more! Rifles are actually better than volks at long range right? 30 cals suppress more than mg42s right? Pershings will beat a Tiger 1 on 1 right?
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Sach Wins!
Would people please stop killing my AVREs. Not cool.
wildsolus
Donator
Posts: 807
Re: Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed
«
Reply #26 on:
August 16, 2009, 02:17:04 pm »
first hit suppression > rate of fire
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CafeMilani
Aloha
Posts: 2994
Re: Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed
«
Reply #27 on:
August 16, 2009, 02:19:53 pm »
bullshit.
this happens like every 5th game.
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DasNoob
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3430
Re: Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed
«
Reply #28 on:
August 16, 2009, 02:43:18 pm »
Aloha you are 2 seconds away from getting banned from balance forums FYI.
COOL IT.
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Quote from: fldash on Today at 06:22:34 PM
DISASTER AVERTED... IM A MOTHER FUCKING GENIUS!
Quote from: Smokaz on February 24, 2010, 11:45:39 am
You have DasNoob who uses the mod as COHTV
Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
Re: Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed
«
Reply #29 on:
August 16, 2009, 04:01:19 pm »
Allied Suppression = 0.025
Axis mortar = 0.07
whats that, 3 times better suppression?
PE Mortar does the same and allied mortar does the same suppression as the ami one.
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gamesguy2
Honoured Member
Posts: 2238
Re: Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed
«
Reply #30 on:
August 16, 2009, 04:39:45 pm »
Quote from: Tymathee on August 16, 2009, 12:49:27 pm
Did I kinda just do that? Rifles = 55, Rangers and AB = 65
Volks 60, grens 90
pzgrens i think are 55-60
i think that tommies are 60-65? i forget.
Look it up yourself.
http://www.coh-stats.com/factions/
AB are 70, grens are 80, PGs are 55, tommies are 65.
Quote
Allied Suppression = 0.025
Axis mortar = 0.07
whats that, 3 times better suppression?
Allied mortar also gets 2x suppression modifier at small aoe range, which is the only range you will suppress anything at. So its 0.05 vs 0.07, which, btw, is not enough to suppress anything one hit. Since infantry have a suppression threshold of 0.08
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Illegal_Carrot
Global Moderator
Posts: 1068
Re: Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed
«
Reply #31 on:
August 16, 2009, 08:43:14 pm »
Quote from: wildsolus on August 16, 2009, 02:17:04 pm
first hit suppression > rate of fire
It takes 3 81mm shells at close range to suppress a Rifle squad, 4 for Tommies, and that's not taking their suppression recovery into account.
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wildsolus
Donator
Posts: 807
Re: Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed
«
Reply #32 on:
August 16, 2009, 09:44:19 pm »
so if the allied mortar is superior to the axis, how come allied support spam fails so badly? mg42 that good?
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Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
Re: Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed
«
Reply #33 on:
August 16, 2009, 09:55:44 pm »
Quote from: gamesguy2 on August 16, 2009, 04:39:45 pm
Allied mortar also gets 2x suppression modifier at small aoe range, which is the only range you will suppress anything at. So its 0.05 vs 0.07, which, btw, is not enough to suppress anything one hit. Since infantry have a suppression threshold of 0.08
yea but how often to you use mortars at short range? If infantry get that close, you try and get that mortar out of there.
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Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
Re: Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed
«
Reply #34 on:
August 16, 2009, 09:56:13 pm »
Quote from: wildsolus on August 16, 2009, 09:44:19 pm
so if the allied mortar is superior to the axis, how come allied support spam fails so badly? mg42 that good?
'
dunno if you're being sarcastic, but if you aren't, yes the mg42 and the pak also are that good.
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wildsolus
Donator
Posts: 807
Re: Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed
«
Reply #35 on:
August 16, 2009, 10:11:12 pm »
one could argue that the AT gun is superior because it can get AP rounds and the pak can not move in cloak anymore (unless defensive) and only gets 1 shot in cloak.
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Illegal_Carrot
Global Moderator
Posts: 1068
Re: Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed
«
Reply #36 on:
August 16, 2009, 10:41:35 pm »
I never got why everyone thought that Allied mortars were so much worse. The extra range on the Wehr 81mm (which the Allied mortar gets at vet 1 anyways) is situational, and at best a crutch, while the extra damage/ROF on the 60mm Allied is always effective, and much more useful.
On the semi-related note of support weapons, I also don't find the Axis ones to be so much greater than the Allied ones, which everyone makes them out to be. The PaK is a little better than a vanilla 57mm, but I'd take a doctrine-buffed (AB/Inf) 57 over a PaK any day.
It's a similar start with HMGs: the 42's extra range is what makes it better; the extra suppression is negligible.
In either situation I don't think AP rounds should be counted, as it's a limited use, purchased ability, rather than passive stats/doctrine unlock
Logged
fallensoldier7
EIR Veteran
Posts: 667
Re: Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed
«
Reply #37 on:
August 16, 2009, 11:12:56 pm »
In practice (I always use double mortar call-ins), the extra range lets me set-up, barrage, undeploy, and move much easier with the Wehr than the American mortar. Let's put it this way: when you use that method with the Wehr mortar, you can always be out of range of enemy mortars, but if you do it with the American mortar, you have to do it within the range of the Wehr mortar, making it a bit riskier. Still, if you do it correctly you shouldn't be hit by opposing mortars (unless they've got a spotter). Despite all of this, the mortars are pretty much equal.
Quote from: Illegal_Carrot on August 16, 2009, 10:41:35 pm
It's a similar start with HMGs: the 42's extra range is what makes it better; the extra suppression is negligible.
I would take an MG42 10/10 because of the suppression. Damage is nice, but I don't need to kill something faster if it can't fight back because of it being pinned.
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gamesguy2
Honoured Member
Posts: 2238
Re: Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed
«
Reply #38 on:
August 17, 2009, 12:18:40 am »
Quote from: Tymathee on August 16, 2009, 09:55:44 pm
Quote from: gamesguy2 on August 16, 2009, 04:39:45 pm
Allied mortar also gets 2x suppression modifier at
small aoe range
, which is the only range you will suppress anything at. So its 0.05 vs 0.07, which, btw, is not enough to suppress anything one hit. Since infantry have a suppression threshold of 0.08
yea but how often to you use mortars at short range? If infantry get that close, you try and get that mortar out of there.
The small range aoe as in where the shell lands, it has nothing to do with how far away its fired.
Basically when the US mortar lands on your head it does 2x suppression.
«
Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 12:33:40 am by gamesguy2
»
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Baine
Steven Spielberg
Posts: 3713
Re: Thoughts on Allied Mortar Teams, and What Needs to be Changed
«
Reply #39 on:
August 17, 2009, 03:34:56 am »
Can we stop this now, it has been pointed out several times that the allied mortar is fine.
Logged
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