Community Veterancy Recommendations

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[wildsolus]

all units...that's retarded.

i could understand if you said all mortars are the same, all medium tanks, all basic infantry sure.

but ALL units...

[Unkn0wn]

make the veterancy level of all units the same

25xp - vet 1

125xp - vet 2

350 - vet 3

Units have their own modifiers for a reason, 350 XP might not be hard for a Tiger which racks up a lot of infantry and tank kills but imagine having that as a vet 3 requirement for your engineers.

Similar type units have very similar modifiers.

[bfhogues]

The vet reqs are fine, some units are just too survivable so that after x games you automatically have vet 3. Vet is meant to be lost.

[lionel23]

i disagree with you lionel. not every unit is meant to be vet3. thats how it sounds to me :/

*Snip.  Leave personal attack out or else. ~Das.

If that's true, why bother giving units vet 3 stats for like the m10 who generally are suicide units?  Isn't vet suppose to be an incentive to keep units alive for something worthwhile?  If not, then we should all just suicide our men and fight to the very end.

All units should be useful, there shouldn't be units that just suck and have no role to fill in a force.  What if the Sherman croc got churchill croc range via vet? Then you'll actually see it on the field instead of say mass m10s and shermans needed for anti-infantry, vehicle wise, and for some people less 'spam' of things like airborne and other units if there are cool alternatives and variety we can choose from, you know?

[Malevolence]

Mind you, before you light your torches, that despite the nerfs we are ensuring that overall veterancy is still going to be very much worth the PP investment.

This sounds like an oxymoron to me.

[Unkn0wn]

Depends on one's understanding of 'still very much worth it' I would say.
If the new vet 3 only gives "Damage 1.2" from "Damage 1.2, Health 1.2, Assault Bonus, Awesomeness 1.5" I would still describe that as a worthy investment.

[Malevolence]

That sounds like heavy tank vet. So I'm going to be paying a game worth of PPs to get 20% bonus damage on one unit? I'll take 5 offmaps instead please...

[gamesguy2]

Offmaps are currently much better investment than vet, so why is vet being nerfed?

[AmPM]

Why would I buy vet when I can,

A: Get off Map arty with the same SP
B: Get battle advantages with the same SPs

Its stupid, especially since most vet units are not that much more durable than vet 1 units, and require much more caution to get back the investment on them meaning you need to not pursue all the time to kill something off.

The only time vet is really worth spending is on elite infantry, or once your company is completed for all abilities or advantages. Its part of the fail system, the one that actually rewards losing more than winning...even more so now that you get to be "defending" more often if you lose.

[anthony210]

If vet is so not worth it then why does everyone continue to buy it?

I see vet 3's all the time so obviously its worth it or people would not buy it.  You can have vet 3s and your off maps at the same time.

[Piotrskivich]

Goliath's are too hard to vet.

[Demon767]

ok dont think to logical about my post, of course engineers shoulnt be 350 xp, thats obsurd,

but i mean all infantry and Axis Medium tanks and Allied Tank should be 25xp - 125xp - 350xp

Than we come down to support weapons which includes AT's,Mortar,HMG,Marder,Artillery (emplacement and or Self propelled) you get where im going. they should be half of what normal vet is. So 15xp - 70xp and 125xp

Than for the heavy tanks eg, Pershing, Tiger, jagd, KT. They should be Double the normal vet.

so 50xp - 250 xp - 500xp.

Infantry have the same vet modifiers and Tanks have same vet modifiers, and no "That unit can do more damage so it increases vet faster". so what, that is irrevelant. Vet should be hard to obtain and hard to hold on to, but we all know how good vet is and how we hate seeing vet 3 elite infantry, using this method, vet would actually be worth something, not recieved in the first 3 games, also this method will improve Newbies getting used to the mod and having a lvl 1 company because there wont be as many Vet 3 blobs on the field, the vet tables dont have to change because there not to extravagent, but its jsut a little boosts to good gameplay and you are rewarding for being "good".

there i dont think i left anything else out

[lionel23]

I would disagree on making it too easier to vet artillery.  If under your suggestion and it was implemented, I would say artillery needs to fall under heavy tanks and require double, and only basic artillery being mortars and nebs, MAYBE walking Stukas.

Reason being it can be easy to fire a shot and kill a blob of 25 riflemen and being their damage output is way higher than a rifle squad, if timed correctly, they should be more difficult to level.

But even then, you have things like that or an off-map.  And that 750 xp ranger squad that just got to level 3 is instantly annihilated and there was nothing you could do (or maybe V1'ed!).  So you don't want to make it too hard to vet because death comes quickly to infantry based units and would defeat the purpose of using SP to vet them (for example I never vet M10s since they go boom too easily, so by making vet harder to get, people will no longer vet support teams as being too hard, vet AT guns since a good shot will kill all 3 guys, an officer being killed because he's only one man so he lives or dies solely dependant on himself).

I like most of the vet tables as is, maybe some adjustments to the units that need lower vet to see more use, like Sherman Crocs and the other units I have mentioned earlier (I can't comment on the Axis side as I do not play them extensively, so I'll let more experienced axis players comment on their side's unit selection).

[GarnierMcG1]

I think the solution to the "difficulty" of vetting support teams, engineers and the like, is the SP cost.  I have AT guns and support teams with enough XP for vet2, but I won't spend SP to vet them up since chances are they'll die before the benefit pays off.  Didn't these units used to be free to vet up, at least to vet2?

If the SP could be a decimal value then the SP costs could be scaled better, such that it is still an investment to vet up these units, but it could be almost negligible.  This would also allow for better balance between the SP costs of different units.

[VERTIGGO]

Goliath's are too hard to vet.

I once saw a Vet 2 in the wild, but they are a rare breed.

Garnier: I think if they could de-crew faster that would solve the same problem. We've already given them the ability to de-crew to run away, so why does it have a delay? They're not packing up the gun or anything.

[Demon767]

I agree the Artillery should be more inline with Heavy tanks now. And about the Support teams and M10 etc.

How people use the M10, their tactics with it, of course there gonna lose it, that shouldnt stop "progress" into a new system because how people use a certain unit. in any case, with the rest of the units in COH it fits in nicely IMO.

Support teams vet 1 should be free eh?

[Baine]

Support teams vet 1 should be free eh?

He was talking about Vet 2 and i agree, well at least MGs and ATGs. Mortars should keep a cost, as they are not frontline weapon teams.

[Ununoctium]

in my original, free vet 2 for recon/support weapons except sniper and mortar and cheap vet 3.