Pak Ambush T2

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[Mysthalin]

Paks using this ability can move at full speed when cloaked.

[EliteGren]

Might not be a bug, but rather needed since salan had to move it to t2.

[Unkn0wn]

It's not intended AFAIK.
(And not desirable, even for a T2)

If crawl movement while cloaked is not sufficient for a T2 we could always add a different minor bonus.

[Mysthalin]

A pak that can move at FULL SPEED while cloaked is indeed a bug Elitegren. Just being granted the ability to move a cloaked pak is possibly OP for a T2. Being able to move at full speed is T4 worthy.

[EliteGren]

sigged

[BigDick]

indeed thats why vCOH and old EiR and OMG now is so kind of bugged

wehr doctrines become very powerfull by all these special powerful (basic coh) unlocks like pak ambush, double lmg and double schreck squads...


why not making fireup and ap rounds a T2 unlock?

[CafeMilani]

lol that sounds so rediculous..but its so true! xD

[Unkn0wn]

Wehr's capability to field, by default, a much more pop-efficient starting platoon in comparison to other factions had a significant impact on balance, I don't think anyone could honestly argue against this.

[Malevolence]

Wehr's capability to field, by default, a much more pop-efficient starting platoon in comparison to other factions had a significant impact on balance, I don't think anyone could honestly argue against this.

Example?


Also going back to retail CoH the mobile cloaked PaK isn't really that big of a deal.

[Unkn0wn]

Example?

In the old EIR as a Wehrmacht player you could effectively field a piece of powerful AI and AT on a 5 pop unit. (Grenadiers) No other faction is capable of doing so on non-elite infantry, hence why they would be at a disadvantage when trying to field a similar 'all round' force with the same amount of population. Wehr could (and still can with the doctrine abilities) pack a bigger punch in the same amount of population.

In general there's also very little infantry in the game that excel at both AI and AT, the grenadier with schreck and lmg was unmatched in this regard.

Also going back to retail CoH the mobile cloaked PaK isn't really that big of a deal.

Hence why it was originally a T1

[Baine]

Also going back to retail CoH the mobile cloaked PaK isn't really that big of a deal.

Hence why it was originally a T1

So it's going back to T1 or staying at T2?

[BigDick]

why not making the ability of the 360° bar supression a T1 of infantry company and the hellcat ambush a T1 of armor?

[Unkn0wn]

why not making the ability of the 360° bar supression a T1 of infantry company and the hellcat ambush a T1 of armor?

You're still not quite understanding that the Wehr vs Ami setup applied directly to EIR the way it is in vCOH heavily favours the Wehrmacht.

So it's going back to T1 or staying at T2?

I doubt it'll be staying in its current form, movable at full speed.
And if the full speed goes we will either have to move it back to T1 or accompany the 'cloak movement' with an additional bonus.

[Malgoroth]

Example?

In the old EIR as a Wehrmacht player you could effectively field a piece of powerful AI and AT on a 5 pop unit. (Grenadiers) No other faction is capable of doing so on non-elite infantry, hence why they would be at a disadvantage when trying to field a similar 'all round' force with the same amount of population.

In general there's also very little infantry in the game that excel at both AI and AT, the grenadier with schreck and lmg was unmatched in this regard.

Grenadiers with shrecks hardly "excel" at AT. Be honest with yourself. Caught alone, it would get ripped to pieces by any vehicle with any sort of AI capability. The shreck is too inaccurate and the squad that uses it is too small for it to "excel". It's decent at it. Not excellent at it. You should be thankful when you see a Wehrmacht player sink that many munitions in a starting call in. Putting the AI and AT on a Gren squad (plus the med pack if you want them to hopefully pay for themselves) is expensive as hell.   

[Unkn0wn]

Well when I say 'excel' I mean in comparison to other hand held AT

[Mysthalin]

Mobile cloaked paks were removed due to the fact they were producing more balance issues than they were worth. Simmilar reference : removal of ability to reinforce.

In my opinion, the ability to move paks again even at turtle speed is quite worth it's T2 slot. If it's deemed to be not the case by the majority of the players(which, in my opinion is blatantly untrue, cloaking and moving the pak not only gravely increases the pak's survivability, but gives you a makeshift scout - in particular with omniscience), perhaps increase the cloak damage bonus by a further 12.5 percent? (total of 37.5 percent).

Imagine if infantry company 57 mms recieved a T2 that let them not only cloak, but move at full speed while doing so, bigdick and aloha. Do you now realise why full speed cloaked paks is a balance issue?

And yes - wehrmacht has always prided themselves to be the most "elite-like" of all the factions. They got the best of the best in all, except artilery, but they pay for that with slightly higher prices, and smaller(and thus more succeptible to snipers) squads.

[salan]

Paks using this ability can move at full speed when cloaked.

woops i knew i forgot to test something with that!.. i tested if it COULD move, not how fast it could move

i'll fix it

[Illegal_Carrot]

A pak that can move at FULL SPEED while cloaked is indeed a bug Elitegren. Just being granted the ability to move a cloaked pak is possibly OP for a T2. Being able to move at full speed is T4 worthy.

This is why no one takes you seriously.

Imagine if infantry company 57 mms recieved a T2 that let them not only cloak, but move at full speed while doing so, bigdick and aloha. Do you now realise why full speed cloaked paks is a balance issue?

The better comparison would be a 57mm that could cloak, but not move while cloaked.
Oh hey, it's called the 6pdr.

[Mysthalin]

I love how you quote me out of context in your signature, and how you flamebait me after there has been a specific guidelines post by akranadas.

[AmPM]

A pak that can move at FULL SPEED while cloaked is indeed a bug Elitegren. Just being granted the ability to move a cloaked pak is possibly OP for a T2. Being able to move at full speed is T4 worthy.

This is why no one takes you seriously.

Imagine if infantry company 57 mms recieved a T2 that let them not only cloak, but move at full speed while doing so, bigdick and aloha. Do you now realise why full speed cloaked paks is a balance issue?

The better comparison would be a 57mm that could cloak, but not move while cloaked.
Oh hey, it's called the 6pdr.

Except the 6pdr receives no bonus to ambush, and cannot buy AP rounds. It also does not get Green Cover from the gun shield. So it is in fact inferior to both the 57mm and PAK outside of being able to hide in perfect cover that gets all its crewmembers.