[WM] STuG

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[Akranadas]

So, the humble little STuG. Is it usable in the current Europe in Ruins environment?

Personally, I would love to see it get a Stuart treatment and revamped to make it a viable fighting unit

[jackmccrack]

I think they are useful. However I do not see many being used much.

I remember having the most exciting battle against AMPM's 9 Stug division with my Pershings in Old EIR. Not much has changed gameplay-wise and yet we find very little Stugs fielded nowadays. Maybe German Steel Stugs will make a comeback soon.

[Warlight]

I tried it, with the Suppression booster and German steal in the 006 testin.

It failed hard however, as AT guns still own its front armour, and it still didn't suppress enough to be effective. It just didn't kill or even stall infanry like I needed it to.  Even hetzers do better than stugs in that case.

[RikiRude]

I haven't seen them used too often, but when I do see them, they are used effectively. I haven't seen anyone use stuhs that well either. I think people are just spending the fuel on P4s. Personally in the past I've never found stugs too useful, but some people (AmPm) use stugs so effectively it makes me want to bring some into my battalion.

[Malevolence]

What on Earth did you do to the Stuart? I don't want the stuart to get a fuckin' Jagd treatment tbh...

[AmPM]

STuGs are crap in current EIRR.

Why they were awesome:

1) Cheap
2) Plentiful
3) High Armor, Low HP = fast repairs

They have lost advantages 2 and 3. The repair system as is favor either a swarm of light vehicles that you can cycle off map when they are out, or units that rarely need to repair. STuGs have 400hp and good armor, but its not super good. It's like a crappier Hetzer, and lets be honest, you only see Hetzers because PE doesn't get a P4.

Mal, the Stuart got its gun upgraded a long time ago....

[spinn72]

the major problem with Stugs is that they are extremely vulnerable to AT guns and M10s/Fireflys, however they are extremely high armour against any other AT.

I think a health increase is in order for the stug.

The stug is like the hetzer except its armour is slightly worse and its a little worse against infantry.  While still a fantastic anti tank weapon, it is at the bottom of the food chain with Anti Tank Vehicles.

[VERTIGGO]

Yeah, not that it holds any weight with CoH players, but historically, the StuG was low-profile and had 80mm armor, kind of like an enclosed PaK with a massive slab of steel in front... I would like to see more, but I think the real change should be rotation speed. It simply  can't maneuver with it's sucky P4 acceleration and turn speed. If it could turn like a normal tank, it would be more useful.

Case in point: The Sherman, Panther, and PzKpfw IV all have rotations of 35, while the StuG (on the same chassis as a P4) has a rotation of 30. What gives? Is it a blatant nerf to make for easy circle strafing? That seems lame to me.

[RikiRude]

actually last patch i thought relic improved it's turn speed?

either way, i think if stug got a pop decrease we might see it used more. i mean i think we can agree an M8, though it must be fully upgraded, it more useful then a stug.

some ways to improve the stug.

decrease mg and skirt price on them (hellcat needs an MG price decrease as well)
decrease pop cap
they are already pretty darned cheap so i couldnt imagine lowering the cost of it anymore

those are probably the best changes without actually doing anything to the stats.

[Warlight]

The new system might help to, I mean, you can't make them your prime tank if the most you can buy is 4.

[Draken]

Only problem with stug is avability it doesn't needs buffs. People don't like mixing them with p4s, if they want stugs they want only stugs mostly, and noone is going to pay pps for something what they know they wont keep alive for all games.

[Mysthalin]

Love StuGs the way they are, my cheapskate battalion thought StuGs were a godsend ^^.

All they need, is for the availability to be upped somewhat.

[AmPM]

That would solve their losing number 2 on my list of things stugs do well.

[Tymathee]

back in the day you'd roll 6+ with stugs and just out attrition american vehicles and at, and you'd only get about 4 p4s for the same prince but nwo you can nly get 4 stugs and you can get 4 p4s, so you go to the thing that didnt' change.

i for one think stugs are real effective and would've loved to see them for the PE rather than the  50mm but, no never mind that I <3 the 50 mm, i'm epic with it as pe.

[Smokaz]

Why not reduce the repair cost down to 30 for stugs? I feel 40 is too expensive for the stug which in many regards is supposed to be a cheaper alternative tank better against armor and worse against inf. Sherman has 30 muni repair, and the stug is the Wehr "Spamtank".

- Reduce repair to 30 (same as sherman)
- Reduce the cost of it's tank mounted MG to 40 as well
- skirts are fine as they are.

From comparing the stug and the sherman, to the stug and the p4:

100 manpower really isnt that much for wehr who rely heavily on attrition and combo tactics to beat the allied "spum (RIP raio). Fuel is important, but only to the degree that you get your money's worth when you flesh it out. The stug's lower price gets you a lot less in terms of a combat unit and a unit that is marginally harder to micro.

+1 to this thread

[CafeMilani]

3 ATG shots and u can retreat.
u can circlestrafe it with every allied tank.
it gets penetrated easily by non-upgunned shermans. (lol)
slow acceleration.
the only good thing is that its quite cheap..
but why buying a cheap tank thats crap?

[GeneralGlacko]

Id say give it a speed bonus/faster turning rate to make up for its health or armor problems.

[jackmccrack]

Speed/Armor/Health/Power --- Lightning War/German Steel/Fatherland Defense/HEAT Rounds

[EliteGren]

So Stugs are basically worth shit until you pump a T4 into them.
Anyone smart will pick P4s and/or Tiger rather than StuGs at that stage of company development.

[AmPM]

I would suggest that the STuG be given a range increase to match the M10 and M18.

Its a boost from 40 to 45.