Shrek price

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[Smokaz]

Too expensive at 140, imo. Discuss.

Arguements:

- With the current buffs of the american tank destroyers through AP rounds their long range and their speed has made shreks more important as a counter to these. Shreks are already vulnerable to m10 crush, the m18 can fight axis tanks from outside shrek range and its the only at weapon that can keep up with them. Pak is too slow. Panther gets penetrated by much cheaper tanks and worn down. P4's already struggled against them to begin with, outside of doctrinal buffs.

- Light vehicle spam is rampant currently, and become even more viable with availability change. You need shreks to protect paks since wehr has no quick-response vehicle disabler.

- Faust is currently underpowered. Now 2/2 of wehrmacht handheld at is overly expensive or underpowered.

- Wehrmacht has no equal retaliation to the way light vehicles are being employed. Getting short range against tommies or rifles is a death sentence. Piats hit from point blank, stickies and button own the most at short range. Staghounds, m8's and t17s are being literally pounded up the wehr infantry anus.

- More in thread, read up.

Edit: Btw its the grenadier panzershrek that Im talking about. Backbone of wehrmacht and all.

[Unkn0wn]

If you guys can't properly discuss balance in the balance forum we may just have to restrict your access from it.
Thread cleaned.

Smokaz it would be nice if you gave some more arguments rather than just throwing something like this out there.

[Draken]

 I can agree on 130, piats 110 but I dunno about others but probably also should be lowered when shrek price goes down. I used same arguments as smokaz.

[HeartBreakOne88]

140 mun for one schreck. 120 mun for 2 piats. I take piats.


Discuss.

should threads like this be closed, get stats and numbers ...
you do know that a schreck has almost double the amount of damage of a single piat/rr/zook, its why they have 2.

so the "ONE" thing dosent matter

[Dragon2008]

Its hard to say if they shrek is over priced or not.

From what iv seen of the shrek is that its got high damage and can be deadly in the right hands. On the other hand they love to hit the floor right infront of the squad that fired it. The porblem I see right now is that you don't want it too cheap that people buy loads of them and spam then like hell. But you also don't want it too expensive that no-one will get many or not cost effective.

[Baine]

I can't afford them, i mean i rather take a pak that's cheaper. I got zero schrecks in my company.

[Unkn0wn]

I can't afford them, i mean i rather take a pak that's cheaper. I got zero schrecks in my company.

Would explain why I see every axis player and his mother field excessive amounts of PAKs.
(It used to be only the Americans who relied on large amounts of ATGs)

[LeoPhone]

time for a weapon supply system to stop schreck spam(or mine spam).................

[Baine]

I can't afford them, i mean i rather take a pak that's cheaper. I got zero schrecks in my company.

Would explain why I see every axis player and his mother field excessive amounts of PAKs.
(It used to be only the Americans who relied on large amounts of ATGs)

Because it's the only way to at least stop the vehicle/tank spam the allies throw at us at the moment. And who wants to buy a 140 mun schreck that prolly gets two shots of before it gets raped by light vehicles.

[Smokaz]

Played 10 wehrmacht games in total of this new patch. Maybe 2 of them were fun or tactical.
Lost 5 of them.

I see staghounds of both types raping all the infantry and support weapons while they are dodging paks, p4s and shreks which you cant really have such a big amount of anyways when allies employ zerg tactics (switching between tons of tanks or tons of unupgraded infantry) cause you need some munitions to allow your grenadiers, pios, mgs or whatever to deal with these waves without getting outattritioned.

Wehr doesnt have the kind of rape light armor that americans or british have, they get the upgun puma which simply doesnt damage other light vehicles very good or reliably hit american infantry. Try to go on a rape tour with your mighty flammenwerfer or a puma, its bound to fail because the puma cant get close to the majority of the allied infantry like the goddamn staghounds can. (No button or stickies.)

And fausts are a goddamn JOKE against staghounds btw. Needs a fix asap, deals like 10% damage to them.

[Smokaz]

updated original post

[Killer344]

yeah, I 100% agree, wher's AT capabilities without doctrinal buffs are close to a joke, the doublenerf to the pak (can't move cloaked + decloak after the 1st shot) + the shitty fausts (lets be honest, they are just shitty), and the new price of the schreck...... yeah.

[LuAn]

Id like to see a buff to Panzerfaust and Antitank grenades to make them as powerfull as stickis/button.

Why not up the crit table of panzerfaust a bit? so that Damaged engine is almost 99% certain?
And anti tank grenades, maybe make them "homing" or so? Nobody uses them because its impossible to hit anything with them unless it already has a destroyed engine.

Even though Button doesnt to any real damage, its awesomely powerfull, enemy vehicle gets too close, button the **** out of it and let your teams ATWeaponry rape it.

And I think smokaz is absolutly right.

On a side note:
FJTB T3 and Ambush Commandos T4 need some looking at,
those two units share the exact same camouflage ability now,
however Ambush Commandos have a 1.25DMG and 1.25ACC modifier on their first strike,
which recently got removed from FJTB,
its a matter of discussion which is more powerfull 3 Piats or 1 PE Shrek,
but to me it looks like that those two units need some minor tweaking to be inline with each other again.

[wildsolus]

fausts are awesome

against tanks and even light vehicles and it can turn the tide. I've killed so many tanks and stags because I'd hit them with a pak then double faust it and all of a sudden the pak or p4 or shrek squad can clean up. it's the difference between losing to the cromwell, sherman or m10 to kill it.

[sgMisten]

Panzershreck imo right now is too expensive. 120 mun for it was ok. More people know how to kite now, and the shrek misses too much against light vehicles to be of much use against them.

Faust at 99% critical is no-no, it's range is too long. There was a period of time where it could crit very easily, and it was very OP.

Yes panzerfaust does very little damage to T17s as opposed to what it normally does against other vehicles, needs the damage table looked at.

[AmPM]

I find the argument flawed.

You are comparing AT capabilities to a T1-T4 supported Tank Destroyer that costs vastly more than a schrek.

Light vehicle spam outside of the Armor doctrine will be dropping off significantly with the new availability system.

Light vehicles are losing their incoming accuracy reduction in vet tables, so that should solve the whole Phase Armor problem.

Upgunned Pumas kill T17's and M18's decently, especially considering the relative prices.

PFaust has been underpowered since its ability to actually stop armor went to hell, I was always supporting the idea of shortening its range and leaving engine damage as a likely outcome of a hit.

[Computer991]

Faust need a buff^^

[Sach]

wehr is easy mode anyway, reduce schreck price on PE maybe.

[Baine]

Light vehicle spam outside of the Armor doctrine will be dropping off significantly with the new availability system.

How so?


I'd say it encourages it, else you have like 18 points(or less, dunno) in the vehicle pool unused.

[DasNoob]

Shreks should go back to their 2007 price of +200