Wehrmacht Stug needs a big buff & massive love

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[Mysthalin]

I always have, and probably always will love the StuG. It can do well as anti-infantry. Sure, it's no P4, but it snipes often enough(more often than fireflies or panthers, anyway), and it's top MG is possibly the best wehrmacht tank MG there is, with it's insta-pin suppression.

It is really hard to circle-strafe a well microed StuG, and "well-microed" basically means "backing away" in this case. This, however leads to the number-one problem of the lowly StuG. 0.5 moving accuracy. I would believe this is the bane, the sole and hugest weakness of this overall awesome vehicle. It has good penetration, and extra damage versus shermans, it can snipe infantry - and even better, it suppresses and insta-crushes infantry in an awesome manner, but it can't hit anything when it's on the move.

It's succeptibility to ATGs is also quite apparent - most 57 mm shots penetrate the StuG, and if the recieved penetration were lowered somewhat, I believe it could make the StuG well worth it's cost.

[NightRain]

The lovely little StuG, I use this tank pretty often and I'm not disappointed in how it performs, except it has the weakness no other tank has. Its slow speed. Poor Stug's Driver has hard time to turn the tank around and escape from a ATG which two shoots its health down to minimal number.

The moving accuracy is the thing that forces players to STOP their StuG in order to hit something, while this is realistic and makes sense it as well annoys because you can get circle strafed by everything. Now now no theorycrafting, although I'm well aware of its only 8 pop cap and the massive ammount of units you can field with the StuG lets keep all the other units away for now.

StuG's slow accelration is as well quite annoying, it needs SPEED buffs in Veterancy along with ACCURACY buffs with vet 1 and vet 2 and little damage and vet 3 focuses on accuracy and armor buff, why not give panther's frontal armor? Haha just kidding.

StuG is a tank you can use to outrattion enemy vehicles. It deals well vs Shermans and M10s. M10 might win but has slight health left. 1 StuG alone don't do anything..

[CafeMilani]

Poor Stug's Driver has hard time to turn the tank around and escape from a ATG

thats epic

[Draken]

If you say that stug is overpriced you must be a noob, it's what 150 fuel lol?

Try to stay on the roads and nothing will circle stug.

[Unkn0wn]

I've been using StuGs on my axis account as well, in conjunction with Grenadiers (shrek and/or LMGs).
I think they perform fine if you use them the way they're intended to be used, armored & more mobile ATGs.

Basically, rather than getting multiple paks I get a handful of Stugs, this allows me to invest the munitions that I would have otherwise spent on AT (that amount of AT is now purchased in F) on more Anti-Infantry upgrades (which help combat the evil hordes of airbourne, rangers, etc)

As long as you remember to use the Stug defensively and in conjunction with another AT unit (just like you would a PAK) you should be fine. It's true that you'll be paying more pop for a similar amount of AT power but this can be made up for by fielding more munitions-heavy anti-infantry units than you normally would.

[Ununoctium]

if you compare the stug to the m10 its perfectly fine for price.

Id pick an allied stug over an m10 anyday.

[Aggamemnon]

Indeed.

People are getting into the really bad habit of trying to balance things by buffing to compensate compared to other "okay" units.

Stug is a good choice for it's price.
You don't rush with a firefly, and you don't expect it to take on other combat tanks solo either.

The stug should be seen as an armoured ATG, not a tank that goes toe to toe with tanks above it's tier.

[Smokaz]

An armoured ATG.. with half of its range? I beg you to show replays of you using a stug as a armored ATG when it cant within range of a tank to shoot it without falling prey to real ATG's.

The M10 is better than the stug because it has a turret.

[EliteGren]

M10 also has 6 more range afaik.

[VERTIGGO]

My thoughts:

In vCoH, StuG is 4 pop, which makes sense, it is the same pop as a gren squad. I have no idea why EIRR doubled it's pop count, when it was given nothing in return. It is also dirt cheap, I believe it is 40 fuel which is half of that of a P4, which would put it at 130 fuel in EIRR; making its fuel price of 150 another definite nerf.

Now forgetting relic's "balance" system, I agree that it should be used as an armored AT gun, but first it needs one of those two things. Currently, it neither has the 80mm armor of the P4 chassis and low hit rate (from insanely low profile) or the range, damage, and penetration of an AT gun. Bottom line, it needs range to be useful as a supporting weapon.

Blitzkrieg. I agree with AmPm; this doc has too many BS infantry "buffs" (not to mention TBDs), and the possibility of only two stackable armor buffs. You get 15% range and then choose HEAT or speed. That's it. Blitz should definitely get at least a reflection of the massive love that Allied armor gets in its armor doc. In fact, the actual Blitzkrieg ability, which is one of only two timed abilities available, is almost worthless. I used it on a StuG when it finally had a shot at a sherman, and the speed bonus ran out before the StuG could round the corner to get second shot. It removes as much accuracy as it returns in speed, so it's only use is escape or chasing something for a last shot. It's hardly worth paying for a second use.

Even the Tier 4 repair ability is simply an "ode" to the allied OBM, giving on the go repairs, but halving the tanks' speed and fire rate. It's merely an excuse not to give blitz another useful Tier 4.

[Smokaz]

Conviction should be a tier 3 as it makes the blitzkrieg ability useful instead of a "slam tanks into other tanks at short range".

Other ideas I've heard is remove the tank buffs from defensive and terror, and make blitzkrieg the wehrmacht tank doctrine. IA, FTFL and Ferocity doesnt affect tanks.. blitzkrieg does.

@Unknown

Any unit can perform well if it gets a hilarious amount of support and your entire company is based around it. If you ditch skirts on the stug you'll have to keep it in the most rear part of your army, which is a poor place to be for a short ranged unit. And if you dont ditch skirts on your stug, you might as well get repair. And then you are not saving much munitions.

@Draken

On roads other vehicles go faster too..  At any rate every time the stug stops to turn to fire the "turret" has to be in perfect position for a shot to come off because there is actually a turret movement for a very narrow cone before a shot goes off.

(Not including flank speed t1)

[Draken]

On roads other vehicles go faster too..

Show me a road on EiR maps that its wide enough so it can fit 2 vechicles.

I should start topic about shermans, without any upgrades they are just pure shit I kill more with crushing then with theirs shitty gun.

[Smokaz]

We should do a test game so you can see what I mean.. I'll msg you on xfire.

[Baine]

What does the increased road speed help when the other tank drives more to the left or right. The stug would have to stop at one point and turn, if the tank then goes straight toward the stug he can just back away into the woods or whatever there is.

[Mgallun74]

always thought the panzer 3 chassis was rather sporty, another of relics iam high model jobs?

[Killer344]

GAMEPLAY >>>>> REALISM

[Mgallun74]

GAMEPLAY >>>>> REALISM

lol...

[VERTIGGO]

always thought the panzer 3 chassis was rather sporty, another of relics iam high model jobs?

The StuG has 8 runners which screams "I am a PIV chassis!"

The Relic StuH is also based on a PIV chassis, so it doesn't even exist.

[Mgallun74]

always thought the panzer 3 chassis was rather sporty, another of relics iam high model jobs?

The StuG has 8 runners which screams "I am a PIV chassis!"

The Relic StuH is also based on a PIV chassis, so it doesn't even exist.

lol, good ole relic.

[Smokaz]

What does the increased road speed help when the other tank drives more to the left or right. The stug would have to stop at one point and turn, if the tank then goes straight toward the stug he can just back away into the woods or whatever there is.

Also if you do 1 mistake with the stug, he gets behind you and stops you from backing up = dead stug.