[WM]What happened to the Tiger?

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[Akranadas]

I remember long ago in EIR when a single tiger appearing on the battlefield forced the entire allied team to band together to fight it.

Now, they seem to be easily brushed aside by mere Allied hand held anti-tank weapons.

Thoughts?

[AmPM]

All heavy tanks are in the same boat, only being dangerous when there are 1 per player or so.

I think most of it has to do with the old complaint of AT being rare, and that forcing tank on tank fights. In the old days AT was rare outside of 3-4 ATGs and whatever armor you had.

Then AT prices dropped, and they dropped really low, to almost 60% of what they used to cost.

With the new repair system 1 screwup means that heavy tank is down to no more repairs, in the old days you could drive up, kill an ATG or tank, repair, rinse, repeat. So you had to focus AT quickly to kill the heavy tank before it could go back and repair.

Again, nowadays its not so much a concern, whats it going to do? Come back for 1 more go, get shot to 50% health quickly and pull off? Oh god no!!


To summarize. More AT + Weaker repairs = no heavies.

Its not repair efficient, which is why we also see light and medium vehicle spam, you can get sooo much more repair and use out of them.

[GeneralGeneralGlacko]

Wellllll, you could buy a kt 

[Tymathee]

Its because of the british players with button and the piats are really good vs tigers. I know with allied players tigers are still deadly. The thing is, a tiger in the right hands is really nasty. I think a lot of players dont support it like you used to, they just send it out by itself and then it gets raped.

[gamesguy2]

Tigers die faster than P4s to RRs.

No skirts is just a death sentence in the current metagame.  Too many airborne, too many piats.

[EIRRMod]

Tigers die faster than P4s to RRs.

No skirts is just a death sentence in the current metagame.  Too many airborne, too many piats.

Too many?

You mean the AB company being able to have 4-6 RR AB before crippling their company?

Piats, I can agree with

[AmPM]

I think it has more to do with handheld AT being to common across all fronts. Lowering the usefulness of tanks in general that have no skirts.

[Pak88mm]

RRs rape em. they have awful speed and i think the speed bonus was removed with vet. also they need to stand still to be accurate. but yeah i have yet to encounter a pershing, kt or tiger as of yet. why even bother dumping that much fuel when multiple tanks can be more effective and good at keeping pressure.

[gamesguy2]

Tigers die faster than P4s to RRs.

No skirts is just a death sentence in the current metagame.  Too many airborne, too many piats.

Too many?

You mean the AB company being able to have 4-6 RR AB before crippling their company?

Piats, I can agree with

It more has to do with RR's munitions cost than the availability on airborne.

Same with piats really.

[RikiRude]

You know armor has absolutely no hand held AT, everyone other doctrine does but armor. I don't get what all this huge hub bub is about hand held AT. Plus allied players are so used to countering P4 spam and a panther that any heavy tank other then a jagd or KT doesn't make a huge deal to us, unless it's like hetzers or something supported.

[AmPM]

Armor doesn't care because M18's and M10's destroy all enemy tanks without a challenge with AP rounds =)

[CrazyWR]

some of us are noob armor players and dont use the tank destroyers.

[Tymathee]

4-6 RR's, oh noes! You forget about the old 10 RR companies eh? This is kiddie play...maybe it's because of the inclusion of airborne rifles and people actually using rifles with their airborne which gives them a better anti infantry counter rather than just having shermans, airborne with nades and rr's is too much for you? I dunno...

piats though, they cost alot on a rather skimpy platform, and with the upgrades for tommy's and the tommy's themselves costing a lot. Personally, I think it's that you get more weapons on one unit (2 piats, 2 rr's) rather than just one schreck for grens (2 for storms btw, which makes them the best anti tank platform in the game cuz they can cloak and hit you in the ass, along with being able to ambush and get a real close high probability shot) off but i digress). Tigers aren't used as much because no one's protecting them right. They use it as the only tank on the field when they're best used with a p4 and some AI. If you're just going for the tigers as the only AI you're screwed. Hell, in WW2, Tigers used to be surrounded by infantry and other tanks, it was more of a support tank rather than a front line tank.

[gamesguy2]

4-6 RR's, oh noes! You forget about the old 10 RR companies eh? This is kiddie play...maybe it's because of the inclusion of airborne rifles and people actually using rifles with their airborne which gives them a better anti infantry counter rather than just having shermans, airborne with nades and rr's is too much for you? I dunno...

The old 10 RR companies were a lot easier to deal with.  RRs were 220 munitions and by spending all their munitions on RRs, airborne spam companies didn't have bar rifles or flamers.  A standard setup was 20 airborne and 4 crocs, about half the airborne had RRs.   That setup isnt that hard to deal with, even with raid assault.

piats though, they cost alot on a rather skimpy platform, and with the upgrades for tommy's and the tommy's themselves costing a lot. Personally, I think it's that you get more weapons on one unit (2 piats, 2 rr's) rather than just one schreck for grens (2 for storms btw, which makes them the best anti tank platform in the game cuz they can cloak and hit you in the ass, along with being able to ambush and get a real close high probability shot) off but i digress). Tigers aren't used as much because no one's protecting them right. They use it as the only tank on the field when they're best used with a p4 and some AI. If you're just going for the tigers as the only AI you're screwed. Hell, in WW2, Tigers used to be surrounded by infantry and other tanks, it was more of a support tank rather than a front line tank.

Yes everyone else is doing it wrong.

Why don't you make a blitz company tym.  I want to see you use tigers successfully.

[Smokaz]

EIRRMOD use your modly powers and go look at killer344 ab company and decide for yourself if RR's are pricey enough <(o.o)>

Fielding 10 RR squads is easily still possible, 30 cal pricing makes backing it up with unupgraded rifles protecting 30 cals supported by sherman oh so possibly.

Mabe its just my own fault that im not pwning as usual this war, but im just getting my ass handed to me by spam tactics with a normal balance company

[Two]

Gimmie a full blitz doctrine and ill show you how to use a tiger.

[CrazyWR]

Smokaz, 10 RR squads = 40 infantry points.  It may be possible, but he's gotta be paying PP out the ass for it.

[Unkn0wn]

28 + 10 reserve = 38.
He wouldn't have any riflemen or he'd have to get a lot oversupply though.

[deadbolt]

Tiger's are only useful if you micro them. To many people bring in tiger and expect it to go WTFOWN everything, where as if you pick your targets and stay at max range it's  a very decent tank with its splash etc. What happened to the tiger was noobs rely on it to soley defeat everything, with little or no micro.

[LuAn]

Tiger's are only useful if you micro them. To many people bring in tiger and expect it to go WTFOWN everything, where as if you pick your targets and stay at max range it's  a very decent tank with its splash etc. What happened to the tiger was noobs rely on it to soley defeat everything, with little or no micro.

+1
Ive seen several badly supported lonley tigers die do a combined arms attack of Brens + Piats/ATG/FF.

Smokaz and StikUpKid make good use of their Tigers.

And regarding the usefullness of Tanks without Skirts, tell that to those many tanks that died to StikUpKid's 586XP Double Shrek Stormtrooprs

And how many Handheld AT Weapons are really in use right now?
A Dev could easily check out the numbers of HHAT/Per Company.