[ALL FACTIONS] The balance of vehicle disabling between the 4 factions

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[LeoPhone]

you have your point groundfire, but wehr needs something to fight the light vehicle spam of t17s, etc.

can a dev confirm it is possible to have a panzerfaust stun light vehicles, but not tanks?

having fausts do some more dmg instead of stun vs those t17s is good too, but after you shot your faust the t17 just keeps killing all your stuff. if its stunned, you can aim your pak at it and kill it.

[DasNoob]

Or run away.

[Warlight]

Yes, i agree that the faust should be buffed to usefullness with crit increases. (and damage increase for the t17)

However, a valid complaint should be recognized that Allied armor is far more fragile than Axis (wehr anyways) and giving Wehrmacht a Vehicle Disabler, with the damage potential of a sticky will reduce the use of Allied Tank destroyers (and the croc) to near zero usefullness.

Not, true, you can't let your shermans sit infront of tanks/ATgs and expect them not to take dmg.  Not even a tiger can do that.  M10s are always rushed in to crush infantry, they almost never go for a rear shot unless there is someone else destracting them.  

More importantly, if a faust can disable, its got to get a price increase, so they will become about as common  as stickies.  Don't just assume that they will become more common than stickies, because spamming volks to get them arguable isn't a good tactice.  In order to counter american/allied infantry you need the heavier power of grenadeers and LMGs, who cannot get fausts.

Wehrmacht has no VDs for the fact that they have superior tanks, and that M10s need to rush in and get rear shots on these tanks for them to be usefull. (which is hard enough to do as is, so many just resort to crushing)

Hellcats get their ambush shot in, then are fausted to a damaged engine state, and are incapable of getting away afterwards.

The americans got sticky bombs because the developers of COH watched Saving Private Ryan.  And then designed the game around an american campaign.

And a hellcat stil has more than enough time to escape after it gets its ambush shot in, unless of course, you choose to fire when a squad a volks is camping right next to your tank,  or deside to wait to move for one to run all the way over to you.

Now, that doesnt mean that I dont think Wehrmacht needs a vehicle disabler, it certainly does, but if we give a sticky quality VD to wehr, Allied armor, which is offensive in nature for the most part will get blown apart before they reach their point of optimum usefullness.

If the Faust gets buffed, it certainly needs a price increase. It is unacceptable to let a buff like this slide with a wehrmact ability to put fausts on every volk without a significant muni sink. The last thing Allied armor needs is to be triple fausted during the middle of an assault.

You dont see every rifle running around with a sticky, even with the price decrease, and they are considerably easier to dodge than a faust, with it's longer range, and shorter wind up that you really have to look for to avoid.

It should be a deterrant, just like the sticky is.

PE have their ATHTs, which are pretty fucking good anyways. Treadbreaker is idiot proof, and your handicapping yourself if you dont have 2 of these in your army.

You can't hide a german tank behind a hedge or a building from a sticky.  You can hide a sherman behind a building from a faust.  And if you try it anway, the way pathing stacks people on top of each otehr, you'll probubly lose half the squad before you pull it off.  (When they run aroudn the corner to faust the sherman).

And your probubly wouldn't see that many fuasts around on german units.  Particularly not PE, beacue only the three people who play tank destroyers would get them, and only on they'er Assault grens, IF they took a doctrain choice.  

And that doctrain choice should give fausts to all infantry, not jsut assault grens.  yes Pzgrens Tank busters and Assualt grens shoudl get the faust from the TD T1.

And the ATHT is generaly crap reguarless, you almost always get shot buy somthing when you go to use it, and for 95 munitions, well over a hundered if you go for all the upgrades, to give it a semblance of usefullness then its such a massive muni-sink your better off just grabbing a 50mm with rep kit.  At lease then you can do damage.  

It would need a major buff to be even consided something like equal to a rifle squad and sticky.  

[Mgallun74]

getting out of hand now, way too many stat changes to please certian peoples imho.

[BigDick]

 Particularly not PE, beacue only the three people who play tank destroyers would get them, and only on they'er Assault grens, IF they took a doctrain choice.  

And that doctrain choice should give fausts to all infantry, not jsut assault grens.  yes Pzgrens Tank busters and Assualt grens shoudl get the faust from the TD T1.

i disagree on that...a unit with vehicle disablers shouldn't be able to kill the vehicle too

tankbusters shouldn't be able to get fausts and actually even more AT only doctrine abilities is not that what tankhunters would need

and if grens could purchase fausts as vehicle disabler the same squad should'nt be able to get upgraded with a shrek

[Mgallun74]

 Particularly not PE, beacue only the three people who play tank destroyers would get them, and only on they'er Assault grens, IF they took a doctrain choice.  

And that doctrain choice should give fausts to all infantry, not jsut assault grens.  yes Pzgrens Tank busters and Assualt grens shoudl get the faust from the TD T1.

that would be pretty cool.. faust and disable his ass, then mop him with the schrek.. lol


kinda like tank reapers.. rifles, with stickies and zooks.. yay..

i disagree on that...a unit with vehicle disablers shouldn't be able to kill the vehicle too

tankbusters shouldn't be able to get fausts and actually even more AT only doctrine abilities is not that what tankhunters would need

and if grens could purchase fausts as vehicle disabler the same squad should'nt be able to get upgraded with a shrek

[Warlight]

 Particularly not PE, beacue only the three people who play tank destroyers would get them, and only on they'er Assault grens, IF they took a doctrain choice.  

And that doctrain choice should give fausts to all infantry, not jsut assault grens.  yes Pzgrens Tank busters and Assualt grens shoudl get the faust from the TD T1.

i disagree on that...a unit with vehicle disablers shouldn't be able to kill the vehicle too

tankbusters shouldn't be able to get fausts and actually even more AT only doctrine abilities is not that what tankhunters would need

and if grens could purchase fausts as vehicle disabler the same squad should'nt be able to get upgraded with a shrek

So tank busters, whos job it is to kill tanks, shouldn't get them, because they would be to good at it?  Rather the faust would be a cheaper alternative to a second shreck. but you can't faust from inside clowncars.  It would allow for the interesting abuility to faust from ambush position.  But its a four man frigile unit, that is already going to have alot of munitions put in them.  It should be allowed, should the person want to take the risk.

Fausts on Pzgrens is alright then, I'm not trying to give fausts to wher grens. 

[Ununoctium]

as far as a small readable post goes:

Brens being able to button from inside vehicles is retarded.
Brits not having Mines/tanktraps is retarded, let sappers buy 1 mine for 15 mun and build tank traps at 40 second each (4/3 regular spped).
ATHT is too hard to balance because of the range and expense of its ability and the fragileness of te platform
T17 stun is similar because of high mobility/range. (T17 will have HP bug fixed)

whermacht being giving more critting abilities would kind of be bad because of their high AT damage output. But fix the faust so that it at least does damage when it doesn't crit.

Now my tidbit off of the record:
I know this is one of those crazy things but it would be nice to give PE and Brits an engineer class unit. preferably 3 men for PE CLONE of ami engines NOT halftrack garrisonable (no flamer clown cars) and roadblaock are granted to this unit and basic PG only.

[wildsolus]

to prevent tanks and light armor rushing and crushing into wehr infantry based anti infantry units because they have to fear to be get fausted and engine damaged?

btw: grens cannot purchase lmg and shrek anymore (just if you missed that) and actually shreck is useless for 140mun

cannot purchase lmg and shrek??? where do I make mention of caring about that? grens can PURCHASE SHREKS and just because they got bumped up in price doesn't mean they are worthless. stick to cover, stay near a pak or follow a p4/panther around.

i think you don't get what i'm/we are talking about. Stickys as something that is not visual on mainline infantry and will damage 99% the engine of light vehicles and tanks prevent you to rush your p4 or puma into rifleman for crushing them and for better accuracy and damage output

grens cannot buy an lmg and a shrek together anymore (even when they could you would know that this squad has a shrek)
and try to use your 140mun schreck grens as ai infantry just to make sure to be not rushed by m10 or rushed by light vehicles

as for tanks running in and crushing infantry..... where are your paks?? and if you have a huge problem use blitz and storms. m10's worst nightmare is a pak + storms because with 1 shot from both it'll get a huge chunk of health taken off. with any other at support (or fausts from VOLKS, KCH) it'll die.

are paks that mobile to keep them always with you (especially since you loose 1 or 2 shoots for moving because you have to uncloak them first to move them 1 meter into range)

with rifles you can run around the map and cap and almost no one will rush into you because you "could" have stickies and waste a repair kit or disable the tank/vehicle mobility

or spam volk mines near your defensive positions. carmageddon tanks can't squish much when they are stuck

wasn't it you who posted a replay on schindel and raged about backcaping? should the defense wehr become even more defensive to be backcapped because they need to sit somewhere (behind there paks and hmgs) with vehicle slow mines?

since when do you rush into infantry anyway? kite kite kite kite kite kite kite kite

and I didnt rage about that replay, pak did.

[VERTIGGO]

as far as a small readable post goes:

Brens being able to button from inside vehicles is retarded.
Brits not having Mines/tanktraps is retarded, let sappers buy 1 mine for 15 mun and build tank traps at 40 second each (4/3 regular spped).
ATHT is too hard to balance because of the range and expense of its ability and the fragileness of te platform
T17 stun is similar because of high mobility/range. (T17 will have HP bug fixed)

whermacht being giving more critting abilities would kind of be bad because of their high AT damage output. But fix the faust so that it at least does damage when it doesn't crit.

Now my tidbit off of the record:
I know this is one of those crazy things but it would be nice to give PE and Brits an engineer class unit. preferably 3 men for PE CLONE of ami engines NOT halftrack garrisonable (no flamer clown cars) and roadblaock are granted to this unit and basic PG only.

Yes, button (or any disable) and high damage need to be separated like Israel and Palestine.

I agree wehrmacht shouldn't have more gimmicks like crit abilities, but they need the damage output they used to have. Fausts for one, e.g. it should take no more than 2-3 fausts to kill a bren carrier etc, and maybe 5 would kill a T17 or something (currently, you can hardly field enough fausts to kill a T17).

---Killer344: This is not about Paks, go and make a new thread if you want.

[Killer344]

Let's not get into the Pak vs 57 discussion again please.

[Mysthalin]

Currently, the faust is clearly bugged vs the T17 at 0.5 damage (50 to 62.5 damage), meaning you need 6-7 fausts to kill a single T17, if you get a good critical.

[BigDick]

since when do you rush into infantry anyway? kite kite kite kite kite kite kite kite

and I didnt rage about that replay, pak did.

i rush my staghound always into infantry because it kills much faster and i know that
a) fausts are worthless
b) grens have no fausts

same to my m10 where i run in and run over all that crap
i try even to crush shreck squads sometimes since i know the reload and after it missed i can take on the guy who carries the shreck and keep it moving while crushing the squad

[wildsolus]

i understand running into grens/volks with stags because the faust is broken against them atm

m10 againts volks is sometimes a dangerous mission. 1-2 fausts + a random nearby pak can end an m10 (no t3 improved armor) pretty quick

[spinn72]

As far as vehicle disabling goes, i don't think we'd like to see more of it.  currently all teams (except wher) have a decent means of disabling a vehicle, and engine damage pretty much = insta repair. 

[Ununoctium]

but you're forgetting how weak tanks are atm. If we give more power to AT allies might as well not use vehicles and all go RRs / inf doctrine.

Keeping allied tanks alive is pretty damn hard with all the things that can drive up and pop a cap in yo ass.

note i don't ever remember the british in my posts.

[Groundfire]

Man Warlight, you need to just take a second and post again before you reply.


Basically, That entire post you quoted and tried to refute could be simplified to something like this...

Faust Buff = Price increase

Smokaz got it. Dont know why you didnt.
I know relic watched SPR and got the idea for sticky bombs. That is not relevant to the balance debate.

[GeneralGlacko]

Just buff the faust, don't make it go over 40-60mun and ill be happy

[Aggamemnon]

Good post, thanks for the comparisons and suggestions Smokaz.

[sgMisten]

Personally I'd shy away from more VDs, it makes the game more slower paced. But smokaz's summation is spot on, with Wehr having the weakest VD capabilities. I've seen games where  every single tank on the field is engine damaged, it's laughable.

- Possibility of moving volk mine to pios
This would be more of a nerf to the mine since fewer units can have it. It's actually quite a strong mine, with a long duration slow, just that you MUST have an AT unit nearby to make use of it. TBH adding a temp disable mine is kind of diversifying for the sake of diversifying; can't we just let pios buy 2 mines at an increased price?

- Improval of the faust to a mobile VD option
Good to 'balance' the VD capabilities, but too much VDing just makes vehicles only good for kiting.

- Adding of british tank traps
Ok, sappers?

- Improvement of the british mine laying capability
Sappers? Though it's a kind of flavour that brits don't have much mining capability.

- Improvement of the PE ATHT treadbreaker recharge
Either this, or, give the regular ATHT a role outside of abilities. Make its main gun actually do something on a regular basis so it isn't just restricted to its abilities.

And don't forget PE AT nades that are straight up damage but hard to use. They could use a range increase to make up for lack of homing. If commandos are olympic level grenade throwers, PE can too.

Personally, I'd rather see VD only come into effect when a tank is yellow health; if it's green it shouldn't be disabled. With the exception of mines. And button I guess. And treadbreaker.