Game dodging ruing the game experience

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[puddin]

There is an axis player, he is 2-19.  He has obviously had a rough go at it, I decide to bring my good company to help this guy and hopefully teach him some things.  We spend the next 30 mins having the allied team and I jump in and out fo the game. 

Is it possible for this to be worked out. 

A 2 man axis team is set up, its put in ready mode they wait, then a 2 man allied team is set up and they wait, the first from each team it shows in launcher and you pick battle advbatages and then you RTL.

Add a new Stat.  "Forced"  it represents everytime someone hits the forced button to force games. IF people don;lt liek the team they play against, and the forced is used to much, The real ammount never released or else people would just go to that ammount then stop.

Its ruining the community and entire games because of some select few , for lack of a better term, assholes who will join or leave games at will just because suddenly it doesn;t look like they will gain a shit ton of vet or have a difficult game. 

[EliteGren]

I dont wanna sound rude or anything, but its not surprise for me that a guy with your style of play is having that kind of issues. I saw it live in launcher myself.

[puddin]

and what kind of style is that?  Pray tell

[CrazyWR]

Ya, this should be good...

[puddin]

still waiting here.  Please tell me what is so wrong with my Axis account that is such a paramount thing to complain and dodge, i am waiting here.  Really please explain...

[Akranadas]

I love fighting against Puddin, it may be frustrating at times; but generally you end up having a laugh at the end of it all.

[Jinker]

Puddin's axis account is great anti-blob. Many allied players don't know what to do to not get stomped by it. His allied accounts are always different and with quirky strategies. They are hard to expect/counter sometimes. I find it pretty fun to play against. I just think there is a general lack of players who are willing to put any effort into adapting their game play in order to win.

[CrazyWR]

I don't find it fun to play against at all tbh, but I still enjoy the challenge.  Its not like we have 8000 people to choose against to play, dodging games is just stupid. 

[RikiRude]

I've gone up against puddin 3 times in a row. Got my ass handed to me each time, because I was running armor, and to be honest, I don't know what to do to counter his company.

But you know what? I played against him 3 times, knowing I would lose. Why? Because I wanted to fucking play a game. People don't realize they are ruining fun for everyone by being so picky. Plus you don't get better playing players worse than you, you get better playing players better than you. It's just annoying.

[Smokaz]

I find companies with a theme more interesting to fight than super expensive combos in small numbers that lingers shorter than a fart once they run into any kind of utility units or combined arms or are completely reliant on their teammate to cover them against certain units.. a themed company could be a infantry only, vehicle only or a tactic/playstyle deeper than just using very expensive and powerful units together that are hard to counter but once it folds it folds for good. The super expensive combo type would be a lot of TR rangers with thompsons backing a lot of snipers.

A blitzkrieg company using assault grenades, keep it moving, a lot of stuh and blitzkrieg/conviction/lightning war with stugs/stuh (lowest pop tank) giving their aura to infantry to mimic real life tactics of infantry moving in covered by the physical body of the tank..cool theme. Airborne dropping everywhere is fun to fight, gliders behind the lines can suprise you, demo charges, infantry rushing in halftracks (Not IHTs) to quickly enter a fight or not get supressed on the way there. There's a lot less common tactics or ways to use units that more interesting to fight than a company mainly consisting of 3 unit types.

Hell its smart play to do what pudding does, it can force the enemy to play your game, he's good at dealing a lot of damage from long range or having combos that soft or hard counter the individual unit's in the combo's weaknesses.. but its such a hit & miss thing making the game so extreme. And when regular units other than hardcounters are unable to be useful in a game because of the rock/scissor/paper system of coh being overly focused on by the opposing player, some people may find it unenjoyable to fight and not what they might imagine they signed up for.

Blobs also don't look very well and generally aggrevate players when they are overly efective and I dont think I've seen puddin use cover for his units ever. Whether its ranger/sniper blob or 3 squad stormie blob, it looks ugly. Maybe some people find this annoying because this working means that its possible to just disregard large parts of what people expect to be important in the game and still be fairly successfull at winning. It's very telling when square select type of micro is being used for me at least when I watch other players play, if I square select my units it means I am playing very bad or short on attention/time.

In the end I dont think its going to help continually complaining about people not wanting to play, I've tried and it doesnt work. I'm also going to make a educated guess and say that its probably the same players you are having issues with, not the community in general which is what you are generalizing it to. It's the player choice who he plays with, and if he has the impression that playing against a particular player is going to feel like a waste of time for him or downright unenjoyable he's doing himself a rightful favor by refusing to play. The way you play against others ingame directly effect their willingness to play you again in the future.

Players in EIRR are like sheep, you can cut them as many times as you want but you can only flay them once.
 
Personally I dont give a shit about since nobody here can reliably take me if I have a good teammate and equal companies ;P Come get me!

(Try baiting the players in the launcher like this maybe... harr harr. Actually that doesnt work either.)

[puddin]

But see smokaz, People like to complain and say I don;t ever want to play this person, and then the people who see it in launcher, who have never played, Immediately say i don;t either without ever playing. 

Then those players play me aned the mkoment they see 2 units of the same type they claim spam.  Or this or that.  They complain or give up 10 mins in and refuse to play ever again. 

IT always happens.  No matter what.

And yes they are all fuckign sheep, but it gets tiring to see the Assholes of this community, Noob stomp every chance, pick on guys with records of 2-20 only to complain when someone who could hand them their ass join a game. 

They cause newer players to quick constantly as they do nothign buit bash and chase units down, only to whine when someone is able to defeat them....

Thats why creating a system where no oen can see the other team and your locked into your team for a duration would be best. 

You geta  game, you play it. 

[Smokaz]

Ah, but with random matching what happens when they see pudding in coh or a profile they know belongs to pudding join the hosted game in the coh lobby? They might leave or start a scene, making the minimum possible wasted time even higher.. face it there's no way for EIRRMOD to mentally control people's opinions or desired content from playing a eirr game. (Its not been implemented yet at least, maybe mind control of the players to make them all amiable is still being beta tested xD)

At least the current way people usually show up and play when they have readied up, its in the launcher the deal is made and from there nothing but connection issues or map arguements can further delay it.

To nurture some hope..What I've heard as a possible future from a little blue dev bird is the very rough idea that a type of "ranked" game mode is implemented where some additional benefits to your company can only be achieved from those games where you have no control over who you play with and some other game related settings like mode and map.

Since the picky ladies are usually the ones hoarding the most persistent gains and most prone to farming, they'd be forced into accepting the possible chance of playing someone they usually avoid to have a go at such rewards.

But before all this is added in, it might be the poor man's option to play and win/lose in such a way and with the right players that does not cause you to lose potential players to play with.. it might be a cheap shot at the Constitution of Spam Rights and Winning Games, but the players with 50%/50%  and "boring" mundane companies seem to be getting games easily.

Where's the legitimacy of the complaints when Draken15 complains about not getting enough games when I know he prefers to play with people he knows and waltz around with stats like 20-1 or 35-4 not joining tough games or loosening up the unsurmountable image you get from having almost no losses and being considered a very good player? Wheres the legitimacy in you complaining about people not wanting to play a rock-scissor-paper focused game when your intention is to do exactly that? If people want bread, give them bread or start teaching them why they should eat fish instead of looking at the sole fact of you not selling any fish and how frustrating that is for you. It seems narccistic and close-minded to me.

I struggle to get games too where I dont have to work my ass off to get a half-assed win or have a equally high level company to play with or a player with vent that has experience.. But I damn well know why it is like that, and its entirely my own fault Thank god for smurfing and losing some games so there's not a whole marathon of complaints and arguement when I join to play casually with simpleton companies!

[EliteGren]

What you need to realize is that if you win alot, play with annoying tactics or vet hunt/grief
players get less interested in playing with you.

Losing too much to one particular player naturally lowers the desire to go into what is perceived to be an automatic loss. Being beaten by tactics players consider cheap or in conflict with what they want the game to be like achieves the same lowering of the desire to play. I think a lot of people would agree on that the mean/average opinion of a optimal game is a game between players that employ normal tactics and unit combinations with roughly equal amounts of persistent gains and equally skilled players since these are the controllable factors.

[sgMisten]

Succint psychological analysis Elitegren; which is why we've been grappling with game dodging for years now.

I too enjoy playing against Puddin, it's fun. People who can only fight cookie cutter companies don't know what they're missing by learning to adapt.

Oh I wouldn't be too sure Smokaz on no one able to beat you. With good teammates for both of us I'd say there's a real possibility either way

There is an axis player, he is 2-19.  He has obviously had a rough go at it, I decide to bring my good company to help this guy and hopefully teach him some things.  We spend the next 30 mins having the allied team and I jump in and out fo the game. 

But this seriously urks me. More than once I've seen what is obviously a weaker player and all the rank 8s, many with >1 win/loss ratios quickly jump into the game to stomp. If in a 2v2, 1 decent player joins, some disappear so quickly.

We probably end up having a lot of new players playing against fast-joining newb stompers without ever having a chance. Balanced teams are a rarity (some players quit as soon as the teams are even).

Solution? We already have commander advantages. So the material benefit alone is not enough. We need a psychological motivator - give recognition to commanders who play many games with poor players, and give bigger rewards if they pull off a win from such a situation.

Something else to add into the war map.

[Smokaz]

One might as well ask oneself: what does it achieve that we are able to play with level 1 companies against level 8 companies at all? What is the benefit to this system other than allowing unfair games to be played in what is USUALLY a attempt from the level 1 player to trade a quick loss into a less total games played for more pps and for the level 8 player a better win/lose plus more vet?

From what I gather, this is a currently legitimate way of farming by the rules, but not by player opinion. Once we get into this train of thought, judging whether or not its meaningful to limit the win/loss ratio disparity between players as well seems the next logical step. Obviously this discussion is wanted by the community as opinions differ so on the subject of being free to play with whoever you want.

footnote: misten wants to play, score one for baiting. too bad it only works on players that were inclined to play to begin with.

[sgMisten]

One might as well ask oneself: what does it achieve that we are able to play with level 1 companies against level 8 companies at all?

I believe this discussion so far is not about low rankers vs high rankers, but:

Puddin's case:
Puddin (experienced player) + 1 new/very weak player getting gamedodged because it's not 2 weak players

My case:
3 weak players vs 3 strong players = ok gogogo stomp
2 weak + 1 strong vs 2 weak + 1 strong (balanced) = 1 strong player quits omg imba

For new players vs new players, this is of course ideal, but the only way for this to happen is with a large enough player base, which is not going to happen after someone gets owned 20 times in a row by stompers. I'm amazed that 2/18 guy got that games and is still going.

[Smokaz]

Well if the community was bigger or a person didnt keep 100% track of how "good" all the other players were even in a small community, there would be nothing but company rank and W/L-ratio to go by.

I agree with your examples of how it plays out when a person has an idea of how good the other players are, however. If anything a level 8 company at least reflects the person having a intermediate experience of the game and have seen the majority of eirr gameplay, so I think level difference is still relevant.

As for the new guy.. He's a champ for sure in the making, and reminding us all of of the tenacity we once had before we got bloated and self-righteous, sugar and fat dripping down our decadent chins. Long live the undying spirit of the man pushing god's rock up the hill over and over just to see it fall down before one day it sticks up there, perhaps out of pure shyness.

[puddin]

But ya know what, You make a team, and ou launchch lookign for a game with that team. 

KWhoc ares who you play, you have confidence in your teamates, it solves drakens problems and everyone elses. 

IUf your just looking for a game to grind, or PPs or some vet, you don;t care who you team with and you go in....

Right now as long as you mentaly reaided yourself to say " I have my TEam, Time to kick some ass and then i see its Smokaz and MIsten vs me and Louie i go oh fuck tough game lets roll boitches. 

OR if I see 2 people i don;t know much or i see wittman and computer and jinker vs me and 2 noobs i go oh shit... Well time to see if i can break their will to fight. 

But in the end your in a game, Its made, ITs ready to go, Teams are assigned beforehand. 

If you seriously don;t think you can take people on with your team, DOn;t fucking play in the first place.  IT does nothign but ruin the community.

YES RUIN IT.

Why?

Its a 3v3, 2 people join a full allied and 1 axis game.  Welll then the allies take forever to ready up, 1 of the axis leave, is replaced by a noob, then another axis bails vclaims noob, and the allies complain a game is not made. 

Well with preset teams, You can not complain. 

You simply pick your buddies, or even some noobs, and have fun with it.  IF you don;t want to play against certain people, then tough shit.  Games will be made, Maybe make it so if you have to Force a game it takes 10 mins to get into another, And if someone abuses it they are banned for a week. 

Right now, I find the Launcher empties out quicker when people refuse to play.,....  When people refuse to play, everyone gets discouraged and leaves, and that makes the game much weaker, If people want to duck and doge, they either need to stop, or get the fuck out.  Simple.

[anthony210]

I have always and will always be in favor of an automatch system for ranked games.

It doesnt have to be complex, just simply as puddin said 2 teams ready up and get matched.  And have a stat for the number of forces so its easy to identify the dodgers and punish them if necessary.

However,  that are certain games that are extremely annoying and arent fun to play at all.  Recently I played the USarmyelite british players that have been playing recently.  All of them play british bren carrier and staghound spam with piat squads.  Now imagine playing a 3v3 where the 3 enemy players are all the exact same doctrine all spamming bren carriers and staghounds.  Is it beatable? sure.  Is it fun? no its not.  This is the type of game most people avoid playing.

Kind of like when allies face 3-4 axis who each have 2 KT's each.  Thats a pretty annoying game to play for the allies.

[puddin]

but its part of the fun and the abaility to adapt. 

I have played those games now. 

The liklyhood of someone bringing 6KTs, Small.  Funny if they do, especially when you back cap the shit out of them. 

If they all have massive kts, then you need to limit their pop cap and cap them out, they can;t feild multiple King tigers if they don;t have the pop, MEanwhiel the brit spam, ok it happens, annying, somewhat, Fun, Oh shit yes. 

I look forward to demolishing those bastard, they can play like that alll day long and i will come up with a way to win the day with my company. 

I guess for me its different in a why... I look for a way to win, When i i get a vetted up army, i care less about winning ironically... But i want to win, if i am level 1 or level 8 i want to beat the shit out of the other team. 

I look at it like this.  I have my company i run with all the time, I challenge anyone to a game with a companyt hey think can beat anything and everything. Maybe they have to change their call in schemes, maybe they have to cchange this or that... But in the end i will beat the, in that regard...

Rigfht now there are again, alot of people just looking to kill vet, and frustrate people, not try to strat out a game or actually play to win, more then killing as much as possible. 

Whenever i see strafing runs and bombing runs, i know its more to kill then to win a game...