Airborne arty

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[anthony210]

Smoke WOULDN'T help you - it would drop smoke, and hit you instantly as the plane comes on. It would be like adding insult to injury. Fix it's range, then if it's not enough - add smoke.

Then add a small delay from the time the smoke hits to the time the strafing run comes.  Problem solved.  This wouldnt nerf the power at all just add the ability to dodge it which would put it inline with the other off maps.

[Aggamemnon]

Meh, I was just trying to give some advice,

Feel free to give more! I'm just saying, I've tried and seen what you have prescribed. More often than not, the ally player will still limp away to repair. He's wasted a repair kit, I've wasted a T3.

Or rather, learned how not to use one.

Well that's generally the way it goes with offmaps, you can't really judge what they are worth in terms of ingame units, since t3's that unlock units still cost the resources. So you can't say 1 t3 = 1 tank ingame.
They offer strategic options for pushing, defending etc... you shouldn't be counting it up as a unit kill tradeoff.

[Groundfire]

Then add a small delay from the time the smoke hits to the time the strafing run comes.  Problem solved.  This wouldnt nerf the power at all just add the ability to dodge it which would put it inline with the other off maps.

The only problem is that strafe is not like other offmaps. Offmaps that drop ordanance with splash damage was designed with smoke because even if you dodge the smoke, a stray shell could drift in the right direction and do splash damage, maybe resulting in the death of a unit.

Strafe is no where near as powerful as it was in vCoH 2.4 where it would mow down entire units of infantry, with no warning, regardless of cover. Becuase of the power that this strafe had, I would advocate some form of warning.

This is not the case with the 2.6 strafe. Unless your on a red cover road, you will live through the strafe. Mabey 2 guys out of the squad die, and everything else is pinned.

It is a deterrant, more than a destructive offmap, and it no longer warrants a smoke warning.

Tbh, I dont even think it really warrants an range decrease so you can see the plane comming before it hits you. (im on the fence with this b/c every offmap deserves to be dodgeable)

With no splash damage, and a small lateral radius of attack, if you see the plane comming, just move your troops perpendicular to the trajectory of the plane by 5m of game space, and the worst you will probabily get is suppressed.

If you make it dodgeable, then it shall be too easy to dodge, and unless you picked the air superiority T4, you only get 2 of them. It would be as easy as dodging grenades, and only useful if the enemy troops were suppressed to begin with.

When units get strafed to death now into useless, it is because the allied team has multiple airbourne players, and your just shit outta luck. It is no different then 2 terror players dropping 2 firestorms on the same target. Yeah you can try to move but your gonna get hit by a shell, and the resulting AOE fire will kill off another 2-3 men before they escape it.
So, I dont buy the "5 consecutive Strafes killed my stormies" argument, and i dont think we should balance around it

[NightRain]

Unlike firestorm...you can't dodge a Strafe because of the maps the plane fires before it enters to the map so...

[Groundfire]

No, your missing the point. Most people get strafed and go, "Meh, I got strafed, pop medkits and im ready to go again"

People get pissed when 3 different strafes from 3 different people get called on the same unit, compounding the damage, wiping out the unit, then they make the claim that this should be dodge-able.

I was trying to make a connection between strafe and firestorm because both offmaps have similar outcomes, even if firestorm does have smoke, you dodge it if your lucky, just like unknowingly moving out of the way of a strafe.
Terror players will use multiple firestorms to make 100% sure they get rid of a pesky unit, and that is the connection id like to make.

Dont see me calling for firestorm nerfs because multiple firestorms are used on me, therefore i expect people not to base their arguements against strafes in this way.

It is infact even more unfair that what I would call a "successful dodge" of a firestorm leaves my men half killed.

This is just one arguement im trying to clarify, that we should not balance on the grounds of how many people use the same offmap at once, but the individual effectiveness of a single offmap when we try to balance an ability like strafe.

[anthony210]

Firestorm gives you a fair warning.  If your reaction time is quick enough you can dodge it.  Same as most the other off maps.  Is there a reason you want Strafing Run to be special?  It certainly isnt because airborne has a lack of off maps because they have 4 strafing runs and bombing runs,  which is more off maps than most other doctrines.

Strafing Run gives no warning, not even the plane coming on the map is a warning since the strafing run hits the instant the plane comes on.

Firestorm is a more damaging off map I agree but we arent talking about the differance between firestorm and strafing run here.  And that is also the reason you do not get 4 uses of Firestorm.

No one is asking for a huge nerf to strafing run.  Just give us a chance, no matter how small to dodge it.  Currently you have to be able to see the future to dodge it.  Smoke and a 1-2 second delay would not be a that big of a nerf.

[Smokaz]

Wait a second here, airborne can currently purchase 4 strafes from the strafe doctrina ability and 4 bombing runs from the t3 bombing run ability?

[Groundfire]

So, am i to understand that an offmap becomes fair when you have warning, regardless of the chance you have to dodge it?

Who else remembers 1-second howitzer barrage? You got warning, and a chance to move, no like it ever mattered.

Im of the opinion, when an offmap reaches a threshold in terms of damage done, then it no longer requires a smoke warning.

Just like morter saturation barrage, the TO offmap, they do a relatively small amount of damage when compared to smoke dropped ordanance offmaps, so they dont give you warning. they're more of a deterrant.

Strafe is a deterrant, its the OH shit button you use to save your poor tank from the blob of storm troopers.
It does not kill like other offmaps, so it does deserve to be treated differently.


Also, i dont know where people are getting the notion that it's a point and click weapon. There IS a delay to the offmap. There is a significant amount of time that goes by from when you put the cursor onto the map, to when the bullets from the plane hit that spot.

If you dont lead your target, you will miss. It takes skill. That's how easy it is to "accidently dodge" a strafe. You need no real warning.  

I also dont know where your getting this "everyone has 4 strafes and 4 bombing runs" stuff, cause I only get 2.

If you have 4, then you have air superiority, and your sudjesting a change that will make half a T4, more or less useless against competent players.

[CrazyWR]

heh, 1 second arty...the way to lvl20 for zerocrack

[anthony210]

So, am i to understand that an offmap becomes fair when you have warning, regardless of the chance you have to dodge it?

Who else remembers 1-second howitzer barrage? You got warning, and a chance to move, no like it ever mattered.

Im of the opinion, when an offmap reaches a threshold in terms of damage done, then it no longer requires a smoke warning.

Just like morter saturation barrage, the TO offmap, they do a relatively small amount of damage when compared to smoke dropped ordanance offmaps, so they dont give you warning. they're more of a deterrant.

Strafe is a deterrant, its the OH shit button you use to save your poor tank from the blob of storm troopers.
It does not kill like other offmaps, so it does deserve to be treated differently.


Also, i dont know where people are getting the notion that it's a point and click weapon. There IS a delay to the offmap. There is a significant amount of time that goes by from when you put the cursor onto the map, to when the bullets from the plane hit that spot.

If you dont lead your target, you will miss. It takes skill. That's how easy it is to "accidently dodge" a strafe. You need no real warning.  

I also dont know where your getting this "everyone has 4 strafes and 4 bombing runs" stuff, cause I only get 2.

If you have 4, then you have air superiority, and your sudjesting a change that will make half a T4, more or less useless against competent players.

Dont put words in my mouth.

I never said every off map that has a warning is fair.  I said strafing run needed a warning to make it the same as the other off maps.

And Strafing can be deadly as well.  Ever see 2 storm squads get completly raped by a strafing run?  I have and its not as uncommon as you might think.  So yes it can kill like other off maps.  Blitz Precision Strike doesnt kill like other off maps eather.  Your lucky if it even hits what your aiming at.  So why dont we just make it so it has no warning and drops instantly?  Because that would make it pretty damn powerfull right,  kinda like strafing run.

Just because you add a delay does not make it completly useless it just makes it avoidable if your reaction time is quick enough.  Really, is a 1-2 second delay with smoke going to suddenly render strafing run useless?

I also did not say EVERYONE had 4 strafing runs and bombing runs. 

[tank130]

I have an idea!!!

How about we add some delay to the straffe and some red smoke. At the same time, how about we add some smoke and delay to the invisible storm squads walking across open fields with no cover. You know, those guys you use to insta rape are armor.
Oh but wait, you spend so many Munis on them so that makes it OK that they are total fucking bullshit!!
So now you want to nerf a counter to them...... get over yourself.

[anthony210]

Your replay has no valid points in it.

Stormtroopers are not OP nor do they insta gib armor.  Takes 2 squads to insta gib armor and that would be 600 munitions worth of schrecks so I would expect they would.  Most of your armor with the exception of the M18 and M10 will actually defeat 1 storm squad.  M10s actually win sometimes due to acting like a lawn mower. 

Strafing run is not the direct counter to Stormtroopers lol.  It just happens to insta gib them.  It needs smoke and a 1-2 second delay.

Stormtroopers are also not an off map so they cant have smoke and a delay lol.

[Killer344]

I have tried to keep this thread on topic enough times already, solutions have been proposed.