[US] Armor Doctrine

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[CrazyWR]

akranadas, im just curious...do you plan on taking away the whopping 1 buff t17's get from doctrines that is a t1, or the unit entirely?  Cuz otherwise I'm pretty sure a doctrine redesign makes no difference in this case. 

[Akranadas]

I could tell you, but then I would have to kill you.

[bbsmith]

Tell me! I don't mind. 

[anthony210]

They do not need to take away the unit or even remove the buffs.

The stun is the biggest factor in why the T17 is so good right now.  Yes the other buffs make them powerfull as well but the stun is like an instant I win button.

When engaged by a tank they simply stun and run or stun and an M18 or M10 comes and kills what they stunned.  They also kill all infantry based AT quickly.  They are very difficult to kill.  Takes a well supported front to really stop them and even then then they will probably get away with OBM.

[Mysthalin]

So the 4-5 seconds of stun allow your P4 to die to an M10? Why is it out there, unsupported, taking on 18 popcap worth of Anti-Tank capable units, in the first place?

[anthony210]

Yea actually 4-5 seconds is enough time for the M10 to cripple or severly damage the P4.  The p4 will be at half HP or below by the time it is able to fire.

Who is saying the P4 was unsupported but anyway this is not a topic about p4s or how they do against t17's.

This is about why T17's are able to take on every unit in the game.  They kill infantry, they stun tanks, they kill paks.

[Tymathee]

We're redesigning the doctrines.

lol bored much?

[Tymathee]

They kill infantry, they stun tanks, they kill paks.

sounds like a p4. They kill infantry, they kill tanks, they kill at guns

ooh, what about laht with focus fire and the hotchkiss command tank, they rape infantry, they cripple tanks, they rape at guns.

[anthony210]

They kill infantry, they stun tanks, they kill paks.

sounds like a p4. They kill infantry, they kill tanks, they kill at guns

ooh, what about laht with focus fire and the hotchkiss command tank, they rape infantry, they cripple tanks, they rape at guns.

P4s can also easily be killed by infantry, at guns, and tanks.  But this post is about T17s.

[fallensoldier7]

ooh, what about laht with focus fire and the hotchkiss command tank, they rape infantry, they cripple tanks, they rape at guns.

LATHT loses to ATGs.  I wouldn't put mine up against an ATG even if I had FF on.

T17s should have Stag/Stuart armor.  Problems solved because now you can reliably hit the buggers.

[Tymathee]

ooh, what about laht with focus fire and the hotchkiss command tank, they rape infantry, they cripple tanks, they rape at guns.

LATHT loses to ATGs.  I wouldn't put mine up against an ATG even if I had FF on.

T17s should have Stag/Stuart armor.  Problems solved because now you can reliably hit the buggers.

i said latht with hotckiss command tank, if you haent' seen it on focus fire you dunno what i'm talkin bout. It rapes infantry in seconds and pops support weapon in 2 seasons, it also rapes light vehicles as well, only has issues vs tanks. It can be beaten by at guns yes but only if you have it pointed right but ususally they run 2 or 3

[CrazyWR]

can't believe people are still responding to him.  Clearly won't listen to reason or any sort of argument whatsoever.  Thread needs locked.

[Chubba]

Anyone else find it funny that the three players who are playing on Anthony are armour players with plenty of staghounds between them?

[TodlichPanther]

honestly i got to agree. the only decent counter to this is hotchkiss spam with command tank. and this only works when playing vs light armour, it will lose you games in other situations. After factoring in OBM allied light armour easily out attrition hotchkiss's or anything else for that matter.

IMO OBM needs more downsides, its currently too strong.

[von_Luchs]

I dunno the numbers, but the fact there is no hard counter to T17s at the moment seems imba.  The "balance test" on the forums the other day by Smokaz, along with all the gameplay experience from most Wher players, seems to prove that a pak plus a schrek squad (with only 1 schrek, a typical scenario) in MOST cases cant handle it.  The dodge, the accuracy while moving, and its armor seem to be the root of the prob.  The doctrinal stun i could live with, if there was a hard counter to it but at the moment there isnt any.

Double Schrek storms arent nearly as spammable as T17s.  What  the T17 grants in terms of combat ability and battalion versatility is what makes it OP.  Double schreks are what 300+ munis, your probably sacrificing paks if your going double schreck?  With a US armor company at the moment it seems you can have T17s, halftracks, M18s and a pershing.  Just rush the paks with T17, stun the german armor (if any are present) and let the rest mop up.

Im guessing the point of Ark's post is to say this is all gonna be meaningless come next week anyway, so i guess the devs have the final say in it.  T17s are getting the balance they need.

[bbsmith]

there is no hard counter to T17s at the moment

A Vet 3 Heat Round Panther would 2 shot it. I guess

[Tymathee]

there is no hard counter to T17s at the moment

A Vet 3 Heat Round Panther would 2 shot it. I guess

a panther period is a hard counter to t17 spam backed up by other at and infantry. T17 spam only works vs tanks when there's nothing around to help it out.

[anthony210]

Panther accuracy sucks vs T17.

[BigDick]

Anyone else find it funny that the three players who are playing on Anthony are armour players with plenty of staghounds between them?

exactly what i thought too

crazywr: armor player and light vehicle spamer
mystalin: armor player and light vehicle spamer
o4b: armor player and light vehicle spamer

T17 is broken because of doge and dmg modifiers and the stun
its even risky to try to kill it using P4s because exactly that happens what anthony said
it get stunned and an m10 or something come to to damage it heavy and finish it off

almost lost some vet3 P4 because of this

but the titel sounds more about armor in general and there are the stacking m10/m18 buffs with experienced loaders, improved armor, scoot and shot, mobile warfare, tungsten tipping and ap rounds same crap

armor has enough to completely negate tanks as T17 counter

[Mysthalin]

Too bad my company features exactly 0 T17s, and I have not used them for the past... month. I just found them to be quite too expensive, even before their price upping, to be really that reliable "spam" units, and a greyhound is just much more fun to micro than a T17... The T17 is powerful, I give it that, but it's not a fun unit to use. Honestly, a hotchkiss easily beats a T17, upgun or no upgun, perfect counter to it for the same pop.