Pe Luft, Something isnt right.

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[SturmGrenadieren]

i've been playing luft for a while now.

And i've noticed that in allot of situations your just plain screwed from the beginning.

FJ

+ Good anti infantry unit. (FG42)
+ Camo/Ambush

- No Grenades
- Shit range on Anti Building.
- PF Usely a big fail,  3/4/5/6 Needed to take out armor (3 you being lucky!)

FJ Tankbusters

+ Camo/Ambush

Well they have a Panzerschreck...really only effective if you ambush 1 armor unit  with atleast 2 TBs  Unless its a stag or T17. then run.

Flank/Vierling 

+Effective if you can place them. we all know that.

Well thats it for Airborn units for the luft brigade  On to PE!

Hotchkiss

+ Can be reliable vs infantry as long as they do not have AT weaponry.
+ Fast!

- Weak
- Basic version pretty worthless Vs it's counterparts

ah well We all know what is lacking on the PE side

Lets look at another aspect.

British commando's and the Yankee Airborn.

Brit                 Yank          Gerry

Commando    -  Airborn     - FJ
Piat             -  Mg          - FJ TB
Mortar         -  60mm M   - FJ Vet
HMG            -  57mm      -
Sniper          -  Sniper     -
Jeep            -  Rifle        -
Tetrarch       -  Medic      -

Say wut?

Indeed.

Lets talk offmaps now!

Yank
 
strafing run (AI Offensive)
bombing run (AI/AT Offensive)

Brit

Typhoon (AI/AT Offensive)
Decoy Atill (AI/AT Offensve)

Luft

B-2 (AI/AT Defensive)   (Fail dmg Against armor)
Panzer knacker  (AT Offensive)

Lets talk numbers now.

Commando 6 pop. pp 4
Comm Amb  5 pop  pp3
Piat  3 pop     pp 3
Airborn 6 pop  PP 3
rifle  6 pop     PP 4
Fj 5 pop        PP  4
Fj TB  pop 5   PP 3

To much to read.

Summary

Luft is massively out gunned by its counterparts
Being PE Already 1 of the weaker factions you get extra screwed by not having decent armor or the numbers too spamm like others
Not having ANY infantry support  (Machine gun Mortar etc)
Tankbusters..1 PS , Recoilles 2x  Piat 2x
Same go's for any decent ll around Offmaps

"Yes but you have a Halftrack and a Mortar track"

Yes we do!  But you have ATG's Recoilless , Bazooka's Sticky's  Ranged armor  they dont stand a chance in direct fire.
Nor can i para drop  Flak88's nor Vierlings  or the Wirbel on that matter.

Il add more later  too tired!

[CommieKiller]

don't think luft as offensive doctine. it's more like defensive doctine.

[Mukip]

I'm trying to read your post but it looks like ranting nonsense past the first sentence.  Luftwaffe is the most versatile PE doctrine allowing you to field a company that can reliably take on anything.   You just need to play more and get things figured out. 

From what I've seen you like to use upwards of eight Fallscirmjager squads, dropping them on top of the enemy en masse.  They don't work like that, they aren't Airborne.  They work better in moderate numbers on the defence with proper support.  You need to attack the opponent with other units and create the situation that you are the one holding ground before you bring the Fallscirmjagers in, and then 2 squads at a time will suffice.  It's the same with the Falls shreck squad, they are pretty nice when ambushing but you may as well just put a normal Tankbuster squad in an IHT if you are going to be aggressive with them.

PE has a decent number of offmaps compared to most doctrines and they are pretty cheap and useful.  You can have two recons, a henschel and two butterflies per game for a mere 4 SPs IIRC.

[Pak88mm]

my luft co back in the day was money. but yeah its really nothing hugely offensive. you need to use Mortar HTs and it really thrives on supporting arms. if you cant use supporting arms well aka you spam alot then you wont have success with luft.

[fallensoldier7]

About your first point, FJ don't have "real" nades because they aren't assault infantry.  AB, commandos, rangers, and stormtrooper have grenades because they are actually used to break lines.  FJ are supposed to sit behind cover waiting for infantry to come so they can ambush the enemy infantry.

The other thing, about support weapons, is that PE don't have support weapons.  That's just how they were designed by Relic.  Besides, if you think about it, your support weapon equivalents are even better than the actual support weapon versions if you micro them correctly.  They are extremely micro intensive (50mm ATHTs vs paks for example) but the micro will definitely pay off.

[RikiRude]

fg42 falls rip shit UP! it really is a defensive doctrine. have a marder behind those TB guys and lock it down, have some fg42s waiting in cover near them, hold fire on things til you can take them out. also you have cloaked kettens! that helps make the absolute most of MHTs!

i personally haven't played luft, but when people play that way, it gives me the most trouble.

[Mysthalin]

I'll say the same : luft = defensive. No other way you can play them, other than attriting the shit out of everyone. You won't be doing any large scales offensives as luft, just annoying them to finally attack you. Lose that MHT/Stuka, and you're toast, noone's gonna attack freaking falls in cover covered by 2 marders.

[fallensoldier7]

Unless they arty it before moving in 

[Mysthalin]

Gl artying the mega-mobile marder and the invisible cloaktroopers.

[fallensoldier7]

Can't you just push up some fodder riflemen, pull back when the FJ start shooting, and then drop your arty on where they're at?

[Mysthalin]

Pull back when the FJ start shooting? At the riflemen? What riflemen? .

At any rate, it wouldn't hurt FJs to get a PROPER Incendiary grenade for assaulting purposes.

[fallensoldier7]

But they shouldn't be used as assault infantry.  They have the best damage output when they're sitting behind cover in ambush mode.

[Mysthalin]

But granting the ability to attack, instead of promoting campdowns is good, no?

[fallensoldier7]

Not sure about that one.

[NightRain]

Sturmy its not GERRY its JERRY...

Luftwaffen infantry ain't good. They are the shittiest elite infantry there is. They get better only with veterancy and that's all I really know about them. I honestly don't want to even try them xD But I do agree in one thing that 3 pool value cost is kinda high for these fellows

[fallensoldier7]

FJ are fine.  Just have to remember to always use them in cover and use them defensively.  LFG are also good with the G43s and some vet.

Just for comparison:

Commandos are dedicated anti-infantry (no fausts to scare off tanks) and they must charge the enemy in order to deal the most damage.  They cost 4 pool. 

FJ are also pretty much anti-infantry but they have fausts to scare tanks away (or at least help damage the tanks) and they have the awesome cloak bonuses.  They'll generally last longer than commandos simply because they don't need to charge into the enemy in order to get their kills.  They cost 3 pool.

[Smokaz]

Probably you are not using the henschel run. Using the henschel you can underfield AT or push aggressively with your AT knowing that a henschel coming in against armor blobbers will decimate them. If armor is supporting a defence that makes it hard for PE to advance (a lot of 30 cals and 57mms) calling in the henschel to make his armor fall back and then walking in with mass infantry works very well. Having flowerbomb carpets around your AT can help defend them against light vehicles , the flowerbombs are not as bad as its being claimed here.

Luftwaffels used to be attractive but then they increased the g43 price on them since some players (including me) had a lot of them with g43s and didnt field pgs at all. Spamming them might still work with buffs, but thats a lot of juice going into making a non-competitive unit into a competitve one.

[SturmGrenadieren]

@Smokaz

You are correct waiting for the T4 Air Package ^^
Altho the henshel does nothing vs the inf blobbing   ( FJ Vs inf with bar = Auto lose unless in green cover and they are in Neg/no cover.)


@ Fallen

I have yet to see armor run from a PF attack.

@ Nightrain

Tommy , Jerry , Yankee 

@Myst

I agree , Eirr is not a Camp game , unless you setup at your approach or your allies Waste the enemy in R+ mode.

@ Fallen

Then why do i get an Assault bonus at V3? You just need nades for those blobs.

@Myst

Agreed , i'm still trying to think of a way to throw the IC at a buildings while moving in cloak.  they usely get pinned.

@Mud

versatile?  ,  PE Has nothing to supress blobs with  , Mortaring a moving inf target   usely doest work very well , Stuka to inaccurate.
Marders can be taken out by any fast moving armor. or heavy hitting armor. IS Lacks range in open ground.
All infantry have specific tasks  TBs AT , Gren range ,  Assault   attack , thats not versatile.
if fj tbs had a 100% hit rate  yes they  could be usefull , truth it mine miss the first shot a good 80% of the time. not to mention the rest of it.

[EliteGren]

@ Fallen

Then why do i get an Assault bonus at V3? You just need nades for those blobs.

You dont. It has been taken out of the game a while ago.
The descriptions in the launcher are not updated.

[CommieKiller]

wirbelwind is your suppressing unit.  Granted it's a fragile tank, it does outstanding job suppressing blobs.