Light Machinegun crew

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[NightRain]

Panzer Elite. At the moment they struggle against infantry hordes. Blobs of doom that can not be stopped by the lazer cannon on Infantry halftrack. Their infantry dies like flies under constant fire of anything.

Airborne runs rampant and one shoots their precious anti tank platforms and their support units.

Rifleman blobs rapes their infantry with BARs and destroy their vehicles with bazookas and stickies.


The Lack of supression weakness Panzer Elite when they play without Support weapon filled Wehrmacht company. The machinegun is not there when it is needed.

So. I had an idea to take this majoric weakness under thoughts and came up with an idea once I played Close Combat.

Light Machinegun team.

Its a 3 man Panzer Grenadier squad with a Light Machinegun. LMG42 so to speak. But this crew's special ability is: Supression Fire.

The squad is mobile and fits for Panzer elite's mobile theme as they have no need to set up other than stand still to fire the LMG.

Its cost should be around 240 manpower (Machinegun manpower cost) 95 munition (LMG + its mobile firepower) Pop 3 (machinegun pop). Pool value of 3? (Machinegun pool value)

The unit can not supress from halftracks, only from buildings and from open grounds.
Unit is basically a better healthed Machinegun team with SF on cooldown

[spinn72]

Supression fire would make it too good, unless it lasted for 1 burst (5 seconds) on a 4 minute cooldown.  Still it would need to cost 110 munitions to start, then work our way down from there.  BARs cost 80 i think.

[panzerman]

Supression fire would make it too good, unless it lasted for 1 burst (5 seconds) on a 4 minute cooldown.  Still it would need to cost 110 munitions to start, then work our way down from there.  BARs cost 80 i think.

u could make it like tank shot but supression wise instant supression and able over a longer time pin the unit but not cause any real damge unless on negative cover would be good

[Demon767]

PE Needs a HMG and a Main battle tank. that is all they need.

[Two]

Blobs arent really a problem for a inf heavy PE player tbh. Falls shred inf up, multiple g43s or mp44s do the same, just make sure they charge you in cover or you engage at long range in cover and focus fire. And then you have a mortar ht aswell or the ac at max range.

Anf ofc if your SE if they blob you win due to assault nades and hummel and firecrackers. God i love SE.

[Tymathee]

I usually just run from blobs...but ifyou know you're going to face some blobs, then a piv and some slows will rape them quick, even ab blobs. Also, their mbt is the panther lol but seriously, pe is very different from the other factions. It's a great idea but it's kind of a mirror unit to the bar.

Another thing that might be interesting is something like in blitzkrieg, a mg team, it's like 7 guys with an hmg that deploys when you stop. We can do 5, basically what it does is keep the suppression, it's more mobile than a normal hmg and it's better protected against a flanking squad.

[RikiRude]

slow + mp44s, slow + ATHT focus fire, slow + MHT, pretty much combining slow backed up with MP44s and/or nades really works, even against AB. just about any player is going to start running away once someone pops slow on them, and this is good, because you keep them at range and your other units can start taking advantage of that. or you let them get close do slow and then move the mp44s in.

i dont personally play PE, but ive had this used on me and it works really well. kiting with AC helps tremendously as well.

[Mysthalin]

I'd disagree that PE struggles at all in taking out enemy blobs.

What they DO struggle in, is urban offensives, IMO. Unless they're spamming flamenades, of course.

They're a VERY specialised army, that just.. works differently. Once they're geared for a job - they'll do it better than ANYONE else. If they're not - they'll perform underpar compared to everyone else... It's really not the jack of all trades.

[crimsonrabbit]

The lmg crew idea sounds like another BAR except in PE. I am against it.  


But seriously, can't they just simply make the Pgren/Assaultgren health and armor the same as WM grenadier?

[CrazyWR]

PE Needs a HMG and a Main battle tank. that is all they need.

I disagree...Wehr gets units that can perform multiple roles and are tough, PE gets units that excel at performing 1 job and 1 job only.  You are forced to use combined arms as PE.  Giving PE an hmg will make them too strong IMO...

[AmPM]

The only problem with PE is the abundance of AT infantry. Otherwise your IHTs could perform that role.

[Demon767]

I dont see moning and wailing when PE grabs a HMG on the field, it gives the same effect as if it was used by a WM player.

PE gets units that excel at performing 1 job and 1 job only.

thankyou couldnt of said it better myself, that is why PE is such a weaker faction in EIRR and EIRR alone. thats why they need the HMG and a p4 varient.

[AmPM]

Maybe they could be an upgrade for the Muni HT. It drops decrewed HMGs that your men can crew.

[Tymathee]

Maybe they could be an upgrade for the Muni HT. It drops decrewed HMGs that your men can crew.

that would be pretty cool...

[crimsonrabbit]

Forget LMG crew.
just change pgren and asssault gren health and armor to WM gren health and armor.
then they might stand a fighting chance.

[NightRain]

Forget LMG crew.
just change pgren and asssault gren health and armor to WM gren health and armor.
then they might stand a fighting chance.

Bad Idea. With SE Group Zeal a blob of 80 hp per men squads would turn into something from laughable to something very scary.

LMG team is not like a Rifleman squad. Where Rifleman squad is mainline infantry. LMG Team is a Light machinegun team. Their mission is similar to HMG but they are more mobile, thus have easier time when rapid movement is needed. LMG42 does not fire on the move so it has to be stationary for Supression Fire to work.

Supression Fire here, is just to make blobbing less of a pain for Panzer Elite. Its a entirely new idea around here.

[crimsonrabbit]

Forget LMG crew.
just change pgren and asssault gren health and armor to WM gren health and armor.
then they might stand a fighting chance.

Bad Idea. With SE Group Zeal a blob of 80 hp per men squads would turn into something from laughable to something very scary.

LMG team is not like a Rifleman squad. Where Rifleman squad is mainline infantry. LMG Team is a Light machinegun team. Their mission is similar to HMG but they are more mobile, thus have easier time when rapid movement is needed. LMG42 does not fire on the move so it has to be stationary for Supression Fire to work.

Supression Fire here, is just to make blobbing less of a pain for Panzer Elite. Its a entirely new idea around here.

That is whole point, to make a T3 group zeal worth something. That way SE dont have to blob ridiculously to get benefits from group zeal.
AND, PE infantry can have the same survivability and grens. Of couse they will have to increase the price of pgrens and assault grens to that of WM grens if they are going to do that.
No hard feelings NightRain but forget the LMG crew thing and use my idea.

[Mysthalin]

Crimson - read my post on the usefullness of group zeal depending on the ammount of squads, compared to cohesion + allied grit(T4+T3, compared to just the T3).
It clearly shows you're better off with just group zeal than you are with cohesion AND allied grit at the same time.
Here, I'll quote it to you, in fact :

Pzgrens with the same ammount of men in a blob with the T3 have 102 health per man + regen + soldier armor, and it can still go up beyond that.

Just for the record :
A lonely squad that has group zeal gives itself the following bonuses :
0.96 recieved damage, 1.038 health + regen. 8 percent health buff + regen.
Goes from 55 health to 59.4 health.

2 squads that have group zeal give themselves the following bonuses :
1.09 health, 0.915 recieved damage + regen.  19.1 percent health buff + regen.
Goes from 55 health to 65.45 health.

I think it is safe to asume that 2 squads of panzergrenadiers being used together within 10 metres of each other at any given point of the game, and in any callin is pretty much a given, and it should be looked at as the "most commonly seen" buff to the panzergrenadiers. Further calculations are just to illustrate the superiority of Group Zeal in comparison to Allied Grit/Cohesion.

3 squads that have group zeal give themselves the following bonuses :
1.146 health, 0.87 recieved damage + regen. 31.7 percent health buff + grenadier vet 1 regen.
Goes from 55 health to 72.4 health.

4 squads that have group zeal give themselves the following bonuses :
1.204 health, 0.82 recieved damage + regen. 46.8 percent health buff + regen.
Goes from 55 health to 80.74 health.

5 squads (20 popcap) that have group zeal give themselves the following bonuses :
1.266 health, 0.77 recieved damage + regen. 64.4 percent health buff + double vet 1 grenadier regen.
Goes from 55 health to 90.42 health.

4 squads (20 popcap) of riflemen that have both cohesion AND allied grit give themselves the following bonuses :
1.68 health, 0.82 recieved suppression.
Goes from 55 health to 92.4 health.
I believe it is fair to assume that the 0.82 recieved suppression is about as useful as the regen - depends on personal taste.

Why should a combination of a T3 AND a T4 be only barely equal to just a T3 from another faction?

Take into account, that a blob of panzergrenadiers can also feature panzershreks, STG44s, and has a better armor type(well, not against flamethrowers, but that does'nt matter) and even the much superior K98(if compared to the garand) rifle.
The riflemen only have garands, 1 zook per squad(at best - and don't bring in TR, as then you won't have cohesion) and 2 BARs per squad.

Group zeal is one of the most powerful T3s in the game. If we were to give panzergrens 80 HP/man, we'd be looking at blobs of 5 pzgren squads in which each and every member has 131.52 health. Tack on another squad, and you'll be surviving Pershing shots.

[Smokaz]

Forget LMG crew.
just change pgren and asssault gren health and armor to WM gren health and armor.
then they might stand a fighting chance.

Bad Idea. With SE Group Zeal a blob of 80 hp per men squads would turn into something from laughable to something very scary.

LMG team is not like a Rifleman squad. Where Rifleman squad is mainline infantry. LMG Team is a Light machinegun team. Their mission is similar to HMG but they are more mobile, thus have easier time when rapid movement is needed. LMG42 does not fire on the move so it has to be stationary for Supression Fire to work.

Supression Fire here, is just to make blobbing less of a pain for Panzer Elite. Its a entirely new idea around here.

Sounds like a mg42, just camoflauged by the weapon lmg. I like it. What I dislike the most about PE is that I am forced into a standoff against factions with better cover disablers than me, better anti-cover weapons and often better healing. Sitting in green cover with g43s is often not plausible.

[Demon767]

Crimson - read my post on the usefullness of group zeal depending on the ammount of squads, compared to cohesion + allied grit(T4+T3, compared to just the T3).
It clearly shows you're better off with just group zeal than you are with cohesion AND allied grit at the same time.
Here, I'll quote it to you, in fact :

Pzgrens with the same ammount of men in a blob with the T3 have 102 health per man + regen + soldier armor, and it can still go up beyond that.

Just for the record :
A lonely squad that has group zeal gives itself the following bonuses :
0.96 recieved damage, 1.038 health + regen. 8 percent health buff + regen.
Goes from 55 health to 59.4 health.

2 squads that have group zeal give themselves the following bonuses :
1.09 health, 0.915 recieved damage + regen.  19.1 percent health buff + regen.
Goes from 55 health to 65.45 health.

I think it is safe to asume that 2 squads of panzergrenadiers being used together within 10 metres of each other at any given point of the game, and in any callin is pretty much a given, and it should be looked at as the "most commonly seen" buff to the panzergrenadiers. Further calculations are just to illustrate the superiority of Group Zeal in comparison to Allied Grit/Cohesion.

3 squads that have group zeal give themselves the following bonuses :
1.146 health, 0.87 recieved damage + regen. 31.7 percent health buff + grenadier vet 1 regen.
Goes from 55 health to 72.4 health.

4 squads that have group zeal give themselves the following bonuses :
1.204 health, 0.82 recieved damage + regen. 46.8 percent health buff + regen.
Goes from 55 health to 80.74 health.

5 squads (20 popcap) that have group zeal give themselves the following bonuses :
1.266 health, 0.77 recieved damage + regen. 64.4 percent health buff + double vet 1 grenadier regen.
Goes from 55 health to 90.42 health.

4 squads (20 popcap) of riflemen that have both cohesion AND allied grit give themselves the following bonuses :
1.68 health, 0.82 recieved suppression.
Goes from 55 health to 92.4 health.
I believe it is fair to assume that the 0.82 recieved suppression is about as useful as the regen - depends on personal taste.

Why should a combination of a T3 AND a T4 be only barely equal to just a T3 from another faction?

Take into account, that a blob of panzergrenadiers can also feature panzershreks, STG44s, and has a better armor type(well, not against flamethrowers, but that does'nt matter) and even the much superior K98(if compared to the garand) rifle.
The riflemen only have garands, 1 zook per squad(at best - and don't bring in TR, as then you won't have cohesion) and 2 BARs per squad.

Group zeal is one of the most powerful T3s in the game. If we were to give panzergrens 80 HP/man, we'd be looking at blobs of 5 pzgren squads in which each and every member has 131.52 health. Tack on another squad, and you'll be surviving Pershing shots.

Yea and all you need is a 3pop unit to destroy that massive blob and render the T3 useless. ITS CALLED A HMG