It seems like we need another KT discussion

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[Killer344]

Honestly, common sense, "wtfl2p" is just ... "wtflearntoplayagame" basically, on the other hand "go fuck yourself if you aren't playing the mod, jackass".....speaks for itself.

The only thing that changed from the EiR days about the KT, is that thanks to the Brits and the ToV units, they're easier to kill now. I can't see why someone from the EiR days can't have a word about the issue, even if he isn't playing right now.

Thanks for the donations.. but you can't ask amnesty for them.

[Tymathee]

btw....most arty shots bounce off kt's.

[jackmccrack]

Is it possible to set up a 17pdr while buttoning a KT?

[Malevolence]

It was, Jack, I know because I used to do it when Brits had no 6 lbers. Button, set up 17, run another button into range and kill it.

[AmPM]

I find the KT simple to kill. Since it has no range bonus it can be outgunned by an ATG, or in my case M18's.

This if people paid for AP rounds they would notice how easy they go down.

[Malevolence]

Its range doesn't need a bonus, it's 45 already. Chances are if you shoot at it with a tank it'll shoot back if the turret is facing the right way.

[AmPM]

Did you even read what I posted? I wasn't saying it needed one.

[Tymathee]

I find the KT simple to kill. Since it has no range bonus it can be outgunned by an ATG, or in my case M18's.

This if people paid for AP rounds they would notice how easy they go down.

AP rounds are for suckers! J?k, now that i've got tank reapers on my inf account, I buy AP rounds (and have been buyin them more often lately btw) and then I've got the other AP ability and I ph33r kt's no longer, now they ph33r me!

[Smokaz]

To smokaz; Thanks for coming out and sharing your vast knowledge of the game. If I choose to play airborne, I may look you up and ask for your advice. In the mean time, get your facts straight before you post.

You are largely ignoring the main suggestion here, and I'll refrain from entertaining your poorly veiled sarcasm. My post was primarily about spotting and without you specifying what situation you were in (what kind of company for example) I tried to recall from memory what type of american account I've seen you played, and I must have mistakenly recalled you playing AB. Not that it matters what doctrine you are for the purpose of scouting.

In a recent battle some axis players that will remain nameless unless they want their names added:
Because we don't always know what our opponent is going to field at the start of a battle, it is wise game play to start with a balanced opening call in. In my case I start with Mortar, HMG, Bars, ATG, Rifle with stuckies, Flamer/mines. In most cases this serves me well.

Now comes along a KT start. 2 shots and my ATG is down. If I'm lucky I get off a sticky. In most cases the rifle is destroyed before it can throw. I re-man the atg if it was not destroyed, but it is usually one shotted by then. Now the KT just destroys the rest of my callin. I retreat quickly and call in some AT. Meanwhile, my opponents other units cap the whole map as my AT slowly make their way up the field. Or, I could call in some infantry and try to back cap the map. This is easier said than done on a 2v2 map. My opponent under the cover of a KT just simply back caps me and we are back to square one.
Now maybe its just me, but where is the skill and fun in this type of engagement. Play hide and seek getting nowhere and avoiding a battle.I could engage the KT, but this will result in massive loses on my side due to the insane HP of the KT. The KT sucks up all the AT resources in the first 10 min of the game. Then the partner comes on with his armor and its all over.

It is not a balanced unit as it is now. I am not saying remove it from the game. I am saying it needs a nerf to make balanced in this environment. Make it 26 pop cap. It takes at least 26 pop cap to destroy it unless the operator is an idiot.

See this is what I respond to, and I think what I responded with was sound advice. Your problem here was that you brought a regular core expecting a normal unit mix from your opponent. Or did you bring out this mix after realizing he brought a KT? In that case I again think a lot of players will claim that you brought too little AT.

I dont think you will find a lot of players agreeing that you need 80% of your units (or your company? It's not specified) to take out a king tiger.

I also think VERY few players will agree with you that against a KT alone (like you specify) 26 pop of units is required to deal with it. But since you are obviously not out for advice or discussion around how to deal with it, I'll convey it as simple as possible: No KT players will advance into a sticky bomb, and the KT is outranged by the 57mm.

I'm sure someone at some point was equally pissed off when someone rammed 5 ranger squads down his wehrmacht maw and fired up on all his all-support weapon start, but scouting is a important part of the game that shouldn't be ignored. A lot of players can even differentiate units in the fog of war by unit sounds. If you see a KT coming, you'll be firing your 57mm from max range, your spotters might be safe behind a building and your sticky squad might be perfectly positioned between the KT and the 57mm.

[Leafedge]

A lot of players can even differentiate units in the fog of war by unit sounds. If you see a KT coming, you'll be firing your 57mm from max range, your spotters might be safe behind a building and your sticky squad might be perfectly positioned between the KT and the 57mm.

There was a time when I did all of my scouting this way. Could identify every vehicle and most infantry. Now, I can't expect people casually playing the mod to rise to that level of nerddom, but there are certain key units that most people should be able to pick out even in the fog of war. Tiger and sherman should be the first ones everyone learns and they are also common. They're easy, and they're important to spot. KT is easy to learn but you don't hear it as often so that makes finding a time to actually do so difficult. Still, even if you have no idea what any of the vehicles sound like, the heavy tanks stand out quite a lot.

Essentially, if you know what your opponent is fielding, you should be able to defeat him. If you can't learn to identify stuff by sound, ask your teammates. Most people can pick out some stuff. Or just scout. That works too.

And by the way, asking people to not suggest counters in a balance focused thread is silly. I can claim that any random unit is overpowered - doesn't even need support to rape everything. For examples, engineers are overpowered. They have great AI with flamers, can lay mines to disable vehicles, and are quite cheap. Now, obviously someone would point out that they have low HP, they have shit suppression resistance, and have no direct AT. Bring anything with even lackluster suppression and they are down, or a vehicle.

Saying something is overpowered without listening to counters...you can't expect people to take you seriously when you say that.

No KT players will advance into a sticky bomb, and the KT is outranged by the 57mm.

QFT.

Yes, the rifles will be in danger. You have to use them intelligently too. Most units in the game can still beat their direct counter if the counteree is a pro and the counterer doesn't know what he's doing, but that's where micro and strategy come in. The game isn't quite rock paper scissors. Sometimes you can beat units you shouldn't be with even the most basic of techniques (like building cover, and wiring the cover they would be using). Give the rifles cover, have them behind hedges or buildings - use the magnetic and phasing properties of the sticky to your advantage. Go crazy. Lay a mine - most people use predictable routes of travel, especially with vehicles. KT's can get immob'ed at full health.

I'm sorry if you were offended by the "wtfl2p," but seriously, 26 pop for one unit? I can kill a KT with no problem with an M8. Get an jeep and an ATG - block and shoot. Now, if you're factoring in his support as well, then he's using more than that 18, which means you should be using more as well. Most of the time a KT start is a really bad idea. As soon as you identify it, you should be thinking about how yo can best capitalize on your AT. You barely need to think about AI in that fight, so get creative and do some damage where he can't return fire.

[Mysthalin]

Now comes along a KT start. 2 shots and my ATG is down. If I'm lucky I get off a sticky. In most cases the rifle is destroyed before it can throw. I re-man the atg if it was not destroyed, but it is usually one shotted by then. Now the KT just destroys the rest of my callin

Then concentrate on the support of the KT, kill it, and once your core is dead, call on 2 M10s. Death for KT, profit for you - no matter how much your core cost, the KT likely cost just as much or more.

Not to mention that you're actually implying we should be SURPRISED that your 9 popcap of AT, one of which is only a deterrent doesn't destroy an 18 popcap tank. Now if you used 4 ATGs and they lost to the single KT, without the terror player using firestorm, then it'd be something noteworthy.

[brn4meplz]

KT is only an issue on a properly formed defnsive line, Granted some maps are restricted and dumb. But everyone always focuses on killing units, when doing the opposite will usually net you more wins. You don;t need to be a backcapping douche to do it, Just remember Territory is the game. Killing units is only a path towards that win, KT's on't cap, KT's don't run, KT's don't chase. They are heavy shock weapons for stemming the tide or breaching a gap on a defined line. They cannot act fast enough in a fluid combat environment

[Computer991]

The KT is like a cripple little muscle dog,slow big and dumb,but can bite hard.
all you gotta do is break its other legs(AKA destroy its support) i've lost so many vet 3 kt's to not being supported :[
If you see 3 panthers and 1 KT kill the panthers they will do more damage,that is all.

[Mgallun74]

and you wonder why the mod is losing players with all this L2P stuff lol...


anyways, 2 per company is too much for normal players to deal with.. of course, if this mod is going to turn into a Eliest Player mod so be it, enjoy sitting in the launcher for hours waiting for a game..

it has too much health too, but thats relics crap...

[Wnb 1337]

Well this is a surprise. Tank has something to cry about, yet again on axis side..
Have you by yourself, ever TRIED one in EiR? Sure, it is much much different in EiR than VCoh, but that doesnt mean that it means its BETTER..

Sigh... Halftrack full of rifles spamming stickiez, m10 rushes, fireflies... Button.. Mines, m8 mines.. Gah not even mentioning my arch enemy, the AB RR's

[NightRain]

and you wonder why the mod is losing players with all this L2P stuff lol...


anyways, 2 per company is too much for normal players to deal with.. of course, if this mod is going to turn into a Eliest Player mod so be it, enjoy sitting in the launcher for hours waiting for a game..

it has too much health too, but thats relics crap...

Play Airborne and that KT won't be a problem ever again. The end.


KT is a big, slow, ass, box of chocolate that it takes 2 mins to get from the spawn to the frontline. Its biggest problem is its sight. Firefly and few ATGs will neutralize the KT. Like everyone said, without support, its worser than a Tiger tank. Circle around it, that big ass thing takes so long to reach point A to point B that it would make everyone yawn at its speed. Hans would even ask from the driver "Can't you drive FASTER?!" but he can't. The KT just hit a big block. It tries to slowly accelrate around but it fails to decide which route to take. BANG Offmapped with a Typhoon run followed by a FOO and Bombing Run. BANG its practically dead Short story of KT

[Demon767]

than axis pull out a 2nd n 3rd kt

[deadbolt]

it only becomes irritating when you have to face like 4 KT's in a 2v2. Regular people will have like what, 4 ats in their company. Usually. With a couple of tanks. 1 KT with the right amount of luck can prob take them on, but if you left the vet 3 grensto deal with the at which you can guarantee the guy has then thats when it becomes annoying to face a KT cos when the at is dealt with, they bring a crand spanking new KT, in which case your truly fucked.

[Mysthalin]

Deadbolt is absolutely right : it's not a problem with the KT itself, it's with the supporting zeal grenadiers, and dual KTs per company. Considering that KTs are to be limmited to 1 per company, and zeal is (hopefully) going to be nerfed as well, I think we'll see loads of improvement in the situation.

[tank130]

Well this is a surprise. Tank has something to cry about, yet again on axis side..
Have you by yourself, ever TRIED one in EiR? Sure, it is much much different in EiR than VCoh, but that doesnt mean that it means its BETTER..

Sigh... Halftrack full of rifles spamming stickiez, m10 rushes, fireflies... Button.. Mines, m8 mines.. Gah not even mentioning my arch enemy, the AB RR's

So here we go again. A poster makes a rude insulting jackass remark and I am supposed to just suck it up and not respond in kind. I have troubles understanding this forum mod thing, but perhaps I will figure it out one day.

I do not understand your sarcastic surprise. I have only ever posted twice in regards to axis units. Storm troopers and the KT. I see a lot of posts on this forum by many members in regards to the same things as well as many others. If you are trying to personally insult me for posting about two issues, get a life. ( Killer please not my efforts to refrain from expressing how I really feel about this.......nvm )

So in short let me say stfu.

I had an axis account. Yes I have used the KT. I do not play axis anymore, they are boring and simple.