Calliope, Crutchope?

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[Tymathee]

Calliope 600 450 pop 12 pool 8 (out of 14)
Hummel 515 390 pop 10 pool 6  (out of 14)
Priest 465 355 pop 10 pool 8 (out of 18)
Howie 400 160 pop 9 pool 4 (out of 18)
Nebel 400 35 100 pop 4 pool 7 (non doc specific)
Stuka 280 225 pop 8 pool ? (out of ?)

So here we have the major artillery. We see here that the calliope is way above the others in man power, fuel, pop and takes over half of its company support pool just to field it, which means you can have 3 at guns and thats it b4 going into reserves.

I know that with its speed and sherman armor its a lil more survivable but just having it out on the field can really hurt an armor company because of its pop and limits what you can bring because of the pool.

I say put the pop back down to 10 to bring it in line with other artillery which are all 10 or below and maybe scale the MP down to 550 and fuel to 400 so it's not this huge black eye in your company.

[AmPM]

As Blitz I have all of 12 support, so yea, lower the Nebel supply pool, it uses over half of it. Same with the Stuka.

You play armor, figure you are going to be either Tank heavy, Light Vehicle heavy, or using Calli's. The rest of the fuel should be towards TD's for your anti-armor.

Stop doin it wrong Tym.

[wildsolus]

i agree with the blitz comment... on my blitz account i'm -6 with support with a nebel

[Mysthalin]

AmPM - because you think TD spam is OP, with which noone really agrees (Deadbolt's selling his AP rounds coy and there aren't any takers) it doesn't mean it actually is. Also, good luck buying a stuka as blitz, so that point is moot. Tym didn't say anything about NOT reducing the pool for either the nebel or the stuka if the same is done for the calliope.



I do agree on the notion of reducing it's popcap strain and MP/FU cost. It's really not worth using calliopes anymore without DRR that's actually GOOD and with the rather low use of support weapons in the current metagame, there isn't really that much the calliope can put a dent into.

As for wild - so how many MGs, mortars and paks you have?

[AmPM]

Umm...where did I say TDs are overpowered?

I actually use t4 AP rounds, maybe you should start reading before talking. Also, none of the arty needs a price reduction. Tym lost his last game with his Calli because they lost their ATGs early (lots of them) and the light armor and couple TDs couldnt deal with a vet 3 panther.

[Mysthalin]

Umm...where did I say TDs are overpowered?

You mention it like every 5 minutes. You keep glorifying your AP rounds coy like it were something god himself gave to earth and it's just getting annoying.

Tym did not mention any specific game that forced him to make this post. He's just noting that a calliope company does not have enough support pool to be able to field ATGs, which is what you SHOULD be using in conjunction with calliopes. Unless, of course, you mean that it is right if you have to pay 10-20 popcap on top of your 12 popcap to be able to protect said 12 popcap from tank assaults? Leaving nothing you can really do against infantry?

[Tymathee]

Umm...where did I say TDs are overpowered?

I actually use t4 AP rounds, maybe you should start reading before talking. Also, none of the arty needs a price reduction. Tym lost his last game with his Calli because they lost their ATGs early (lots of them) and the light armor and couple TDs couldnt deal with a vet 3 panther.

My post has nothing to do with our game. I was meaning to do this post for a few days but got into other stuff and just took the time to do so last night. My callie gets about 5-10 kills a game, which at its cost is horrible.

Umm...where did I say TDs are overpowered?

You mention it like every 5 minutes. You keep glorifying your AP rounds coy like it were something god himself gave to earth and it's just getting annoying.

Tym did not mention any specific game that forced him to make this post. He's just noting that a calliope company does not have enough support pool to be able to field ATGs, which is what you SHOULD be using in conjunction with calliopes. Unless, of course, you mean that it is right if you have to pay 10-20 popcap on top of your 12 popcap to be able to protect said 12 popcap from tank assaults? Leaving nothing you can really do against infantry?

Exactly, you can get 1 callie and 3 atgs, which means no hmgs, no mortars, no snipers.

Also, i'd agree on the nebel if it weren't so good for its cost, it easily replaces any mortar you'd lose from having it because of its low cooldown.

 Although i'd have ot say the stuka maybe needs at least 1 on pool reduction, but its also pretty cheap with no mu cost.

[Tymathee]

okay, i'm officially done with these things, i feel like i just wasted 50 pp, this thing is a straight pos. 30 minutes, no kills, even at good range. You have to freakin shot gun 'em to do anything, total waste. of resources, pop and support pts. I could do better with just one freakin mortar in one game than i've done with this thing over 5.

[fallensoldier7]

Yea, I wasted 50 pps on a calliope too.  The only person I've ever seen with good calliope usage is Wildsolus, and that was a few wars ago.

[CommieKillerz]

All on map field arties suck balls (except officer ones).

Games usually don't last long enough for them to shoot many times and even they do, they only score about 2~3 kills in one barrage.  OMAs only work against blobs.

[Mukip]

Calliopes do seem to be conspicuous by their absence at the moment.

[NightRain]

Calliopes do seem to be conspicuous by their absence at the moment.

People tend to spam T17s/Shermans/TD's instead of Calli's.

Imo Calliope is a decent. It breaks enemy line, it disturbs enemy line. It isn't like most artillery pieces like Hummel/Priest/Nebelwerfer/Howizer 105.

Calliope is more anti blob and line disturber than full destruction derby xD

[Mysthalin]

anti blob when all the blob has to do is stop moving to completely negate it?

All it does is kill MGs in buildings and the occasional pak. In the current metagame - how many times do you really need to remove an MG42 from a building that's locked down so bad that regular means like a grenade or flamethrower won't kill it? For much less resources and popcap strain?

It doesn't qualify as a linebreaker, only as a harraser. Frankly - a mortar at 4 popcap and infinite times less fuel can do the same.

[AmPM]

The problem with heavy on map artillery is that it forces you into a play style.

Howi, Hummel, Stuka, Calli, 88mm even the Nebel in some cases. You are forced to settle your force into protecting it or it gets run off or destroyed too easily. In addition the static ones have to deal with off map and on map arty hitting them as well.

When the game was based on a ticker instead of pop control then you could afford to sit back and pummel the enemy before moving in. Now you cannot. When that changed artillery lost its real use. As of right now, all you want are offmap strikes, you use them to remove hardpoints or blobs.

The problem is not the artillery itself so much as the gameplay relegating them to nearly useless.

Oh and Myst, just because the AP round Hellcats are very good at what they do, possibly to the point that they do heavy mobile AT better than any other unit, does not mean its OP or the best thing out there. It has serious trouble with infantry heavy companies.

Get over yourself.

[Tymathee]

One of the callies major drawbacks is the huge spread it gets. You have to get it in close to really do damage but no one really gets their stuff in that close together anyway to make the callie really do a job .

I'd have to disagree on the on map artiller though. I do a great job using priests, howtizers, 25lbr, nebels, hummels stukas, heck even the crazy lil hotchkiss stuka i do more damage in half a game than i have with a callie in a full game.

the game play style really makes you suffer with a callie and then it has a huge cost and support cost and other stuff.

so i took it out, know what i bought? two crocs, 2 jeeps another at gun and a mortar i took out a quad as well so you can add the at gun into that. but still, the two crocs, jeeps and mortar will do more for me in a game than that dang callie.

[Draken]

Well that may sound controversial but I think calli should get main gun back, pop cost should be increased to 14 after that. Or leave it as it is and give it main gun back with next gen t4.

[puddin]

Yaxis had a Vet 3 Cali with Teir 4 DRR.

ITs disgusting. 

Only after the Teir 4, ONLY after VEt 3 (40 sec cool down reduction) and 20% increased dmg... 


I played 2gameswith him one game it got65 kills the other it got 45.  A couple lgiht vehicles and 1 or 2 dmged heavy tanks... 

ITsa only good with a teir 4... And only good with vet... 

To be honest, IF a unit is onlygood when those factors are in place... Its not that great of a unit.

I say Give it a slightly better teir 4, As indouble theammount of rockets as before and giveita wider firing arc at longer ranges...

I actually USed to love getting Teir 3 for the +10 range because itcould hit amuch wider area at max range.... 

A wider arc T4 combines with a few extra rockets and time reduction, WQould make it aworth while teir 4...

IT would become a grinding arty peice, Or aspecialed anti blob at close ranges.... 

Either way, I tried using them and found them quite bland in their current state.

[EliteGren]

DRR will get removed in the doctrine rework. Im still for giving it its main gun back as an added effect to NGV which is lackluster anyway.

[RikiRude]

DRR will get removed in the doctrine rework. Im still for giving it its main gun back as an added effect to NGV which is lackluster anyway.

its funny i actually am making a new armor company to include a calli because i felt so naked without a calli as armor. now you guys are making me rethink it =P

i just have to remember how to make the most of them.

[Mysthalin]

DRR will get removed in the doctrine rework. Im still for giving it its main gun back as an added effect to NGV which is lackluster anyway.

its funny i actually am making a new armor company to include a calli because i felt so naked without a calli as armor. now you guys are making me rethink it =P

i just have to remember how to make the most of them.

I had even written a guide how to use calliopes back in vEiR! You just can't do the same anymore.. Can't...