Opinion on Power of Allied vs Axis

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[lionel23]

Now I might be in the minority, but lately I've been really wondering what is so good about allies other than them being the underdog faction.

I look at namely - in general - the superiority of axis infantry, tanks, artillery, and offmaps compared to what the allies can bring in..

Many, many games me and my teammates have been blasted by tons of off-maps (the mine drop one, the area mortar barrage, officer barrage, etc), only to then be trounched by tons of super heavy tanks and p4s (with the only real counter being shermans/pershing and the firefly) or tons of super tough infantry (vet 3 grens with lmgs, officers, mass storms, wave after wave of vetted mp40 volks that out-attrition riflemen).

Then you got the power of the hummel arty and wehr neb, which loves to discourage use of buildings for allies.  And axis weapon support teams tend to be better.  The damage off the .30cal is piddly, while the longer range and better suppression of the mg42 is legendary, as well as their long range and more accurate mortar that takes out all the allied mortar squads, forcing vehicle rushes (which competent axis players are prepared for) or the use of a 105mm to take out a small mortar.

I'm tired of having US infantry raped hands down by axis infantry consistantly, our tanks being out-classed by axis tanks (I lost an upgun churchill in one game, chasing a damage P4 with NO skirts from behind, last 4 shots bounce off before a stug comes in, and in a head-on fight it beats the churchill with more than 60% life...), and all our forms of artillery except the priest (mobile that it is) and the 105mm howie being outclassed when compared to the basic artillery the axis can field, let alone the doctrine ones like the hummel.

So is it just me or does anyone else agree?  It just seems that axis get all the cool abilities and toys (super heavy tanks, mass cloaking, best AT options like 88mm, shreks) when compared to the 'strength' of allied units (88mm vs a poor Sherman, then compare a 57mm against the frontal armor of the KT...).  It feels like its overkill on the German side and allies its like firing a watergun at a brickwall and hoping it erodes eventually (exception of course being airborne cause everyone know hows awesome they are compared to everything else).

What do you all think?  Should Allies get some love or is it fine the way things are now?

[Baine]

I just read the last part and i don't think i will read the rest now.

It just seems that axis get all the cool abilities and toys (super heavy tanks, mass cloaking, best AT options like 88mm, shreks) when compared to the 'strength' of allied units (88mm vs a poor Sherman, then compare a 57mm against the frontal armor of the KT...).

Nice comparison.

[deadbolt]

i know exactly what the first axis reply will be. EXACTLY.

[lionel23]

And why not? We're talking about the best against its 'hardest' target.

Axis have the strongest AT AND strongest tanks, the best AT weapon is the US 57mm, for all intents and purposes (I could be wrong, but I think its stats are better than RRs right?).

Shall we compare how hard a bazooka/RR hits a panther and how hard a shrek blasts apart a sherman then?  Axis tanks are more likely to bounce the AT rounds from allies like upgun shermans and 57mm (non-tank reapers of course), as well as some really powerful doctrine abilities where they can outrange AT guns or the massive explosion from something like Heat Rounds lets them blow away entire AT gun crews in a single shot, or how the Jadg can 'snipe' AT guns being they are considered vehicles and the thing is a tank destroyer, and has superb armor and super speed to escape...

[Ununoctium]

well axis can play volkspam with fausts and stugs too.
so they get to be americans. but americans cant play pershing with rrs and smgs....

[lionel23]

Oh yeah forgot the cheap 'good' tanks compared to the paper thing TDs that misfire... gawd, I'd give my left nut for something to remove that dang misfiring bug... and volks yeah I had forgotten they get fausts and cheap smgs, and Americans can't similarly mix and match due to it all being doctrine specific..

I remember fighting Computers pure volks company.. like 30+ volks all with fausts and mp40s... man that was a bitch to fight with anything, especially when they all got vet and can beat down rangers with smgs easily... meh..

[deadbolt]

yeh but wait, wait. wait for it............... allies have t17 and staghound. oh ffs sry that just completely balances everythin. sorry guys.

[Ununoctium]

yeh but wait, wait. wait for it............... allies have t17 and staghound. oh ffs sry that just completely balances everythin. sorry guys.

oh right i forgot. allies need doctrines to help them out.
I can run identical companies across doctrines as axis all just with different buffs.
allies i need different units across doctrines sometimes i dont like said units and would rather PICK my buff.

[lionel23]

Okay let's assume that those vehicles 'balance' things

Allies Light Vehicles > Axis Light vehicles

Axis Tanks (all kinds) > Allies tanks

Axis Weapon Support (HMG, Mortar) > Allied Support

Axis Offmap (Mine drop, officer artillery, nebs, mortar/rocket barrage)> Allies Offmap (105, nerfed airborne strikes and RCA)

Axis Onmap (Mobile Hummel with chemical fire and area denial) > Allies Onmap (Immobile 105mm, decent Priest so not complaining on the priest, though its rounds can be dodged if you can guess where the end point is, short-ranged and weak/vulnerable and non-remanable 25lber)

Axis Infantry (Mass SMG/Faust infantry, cloaking infantry, long range infantry w/ LMGs, KCHs) > Allied Infantry (Riflemen w/ and w/o BARs, rangers with some SMGs for huge ammo sink, Commandoes which are decent for 6 men with AI weapons, Tommys).

Axis Abilities (Assault nades of death, zeal/ferocity or whatever makes a single gren instant gib 3 shermans, stealth/cloak, slow) > Allies Abilities (Stun nades which will be the same price as regular nades, so no point in taking them anymore, and its a single, non-leading grenade; suppression fire with long cooldown, smoke screen...)

Axis Doctrines (Heat, Improved Barrels, Blitzkrieg - if this is the one that makes them rapid fire, German Engineering, Zeal Grens, German Steel) > Allies Doctrines (Tank Reapers, M1 Carbines, whatever the Airborne one is, OBMs)

So yeah, I think I do have SOME points anyway that the Axis play a lot easier and have much more powerful equipment and abilities when you compare them to the allies and what units you need to bring up to counter.

I would like to see Germans focus more on 'we hit hard and slow' while the allies are more 'we shoot a lot but our shots suck', but a lot of the abilities say with tank repair or rapid shooting the axis can do, and the allies (who already have a hard time penetrating) still fire at a slow or reduced rate (with upgun) and take a damage penalty (skirts vs sherman dmg).  Or how German tanks can repair and shoot while our tanks can't shoot at all with OBMs, and that 5% thing really kicks the butts off our guys when trying to deal with a supposedly dead tank... that's just one example out of many I can name in this.

[Draken]

Well lionel you should make your post sound less biased, giving examples about your luck are not good idea.

In general axis imo have everything suprerior except light vechicles, arty is hard to compare since allies have more "heavy arty" and axis let's call it "medium arty" and superior light arty mortars and mortar halftracks.

Ofcourse there are price difrences, problem with axis can be that you posses more firefpower then your enemy for less pop, and also allies are getting boring to playt after time, since you have less options to be effective, aka light vechicle spam and this makes axis write how it's op, becasue everyone uses that, there is just no choice in units tbh, that's the reason of that, if you make balanced company you will always be on disadvanatage compared to axis balanced company.

[crimsonrabbit]

...well, i think you mean the wehrmacht has all the superior weapons.
Panzer Elite are a challenge to play with in comparison to wehrmacht.
Soooooooooooo, don't say axis, say wehr.

[Draken]

pe with t4s can be op, without doctrine unlocks, and with this stupid inft avability it makes life harder.

[von_Luchs]

Just curious, are axis not posting because this whole thread is inane?

So let me get this straight, the only thing Allies have that is better than axis is Lt Veh? Particualrly T17s and Stags, right?  And, that in every other unit type Axis is superior, and therefore wins any engagement that doesnt involve lt. veh.?

That premise is too much fanboi to be taken seriously?  

I mean, come on, to use an 88 as the reason why axis AT is OP.  Maybe if you JUST look at the damage column and nothing else and never actually play the game you may believe that.

[NightRain]

I CHOOSE NUMBER OVER FIREPOWER!

Quanity beats Quality.

'nough said in my books.

[kwiatekkek]

This thread is insane...

[EliteGren]

What the hell is the problem? Ive been playing allies since about 5 months straight and I dont get too many problems handling anything youve mentioned.

I think the inability to deal with that kind of stuff is to trace back to lack of skill if anything.

[CommieKillerz]

oh wow this thread is pure bull.

allies have their advantages as well, not just light vehicles.

maybe you need to play each armies more.

[3rdCondor]

who have you been playing?

T17s rape EVERYTHING axis!!
Rangers w/ thompsons are awesome against any axis inf
pershings!!?
airborne strafing runs?

If anything the T17 needs to be toned down

[CrazyWR]

ffs, there is nothing wrong with the t17, l2p.  The old t-17 from the original OF that penetrated panthers and such was broken, yes, but this is not that t-17.

[RikiRude]

I don't think it's that easy.


Rangers and AB rape PE simply put, if they run a lot of HTs. This just hurts PE too much. So it makes them a very weaker faction.

WM simply put I think has had much much more work and thought put into their doctrines then US, WM is in general better, with things like HEAT rounds compared to AP rounds, HEAT rounds make something like the P4 better at everything it does kill tanks and infantry, while something like AP rounds just makes some units better at 1 thing. then you have the super tanks that axis get, KT and Jagds, and its just WAY too easy to kill all of the allies ATGs and roll in with heavy tanks. I think all axis tanks need a fuel increase so we see a little less of them.

Then you have brits, they seem pretty balanced because their infantry are much stronger, though their AT is lacking with people who don't know how well to use piats.

So when you have WM vs US you will usually see US have a hard time, I think US is much harder to master, US HAS to use tactics like loads of RRs blobbing to deal with tanks or LV spam because it's the only things that WM can't deal with too well.

The problem is if you do something like make BARs cheaper to be more on par with MP40s, then you'll have BAR rifles chewing through PE, it just seems tough to really balance with 4 factions.



In general I've always felt WM were a bit stronger across the board then US, but brits and PE and WM seem some what balanced with each other.