Opinion on Power of Allied vs Axis

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[CrazyWR]

Rangers aren't as big of a problem IMO vs PE as AB due to the fact bazookas miss more often, but essentially, yes...PE has major issues with handheld AT in groups...

[bbsmith]

Lionel the heart of your problem lies with the fact that you refuse to use allied AT guns.

[Tymathee]

I get where he's going with this although not how he worded it. There are times when you will just get beat head on by something. I"ve taken a vanilla p4 with skirts vs a vaanilla sherman with upgun and lost the fight because of the dmg reduction that the skirts do to the Sherman and the faster rof. Then you have these insane doctrine abilities that make the p4 amazing, and with the allies, most abilities are based around making it a better all around army but doesn't make anything like purely wow except for airborne and not everyone wants to play airborne.

In my infantry company, if I have to wait until i get a dang tier 4 until i'm able to win consistently, it's a damn shame. Wehr is so much easier to play and win consistently at. Just look at the leaderboard and look at the winning percentages for the Axis (PE included) vs Brits and Americans, they have much better win ratios. The usual way allies win is by out massing the axis, bringing so much infantry or vehicles that they just run out of stuff.

TBH there are a few things that need to be removed from wehr that were added.

Volks mines - why were these even added? I've run across like 8 of these in a single game, and when you have cloaked paks that wait until you hit 'em and knock 'em out, its just smh.

Fausts Crit - okay, so you add one vehicle disabler in the volks mines and then you add more onto the fausts? so then you turn a unit whos main downside was its ability to battle tanks into a unit that can protect itself vs any vehicle? Just take the crit out, they're already cheaper than Stickies, more reliable, have longer range and harder to dodge, why did they need crit added?  
 
Precision Strike - okay, so they've already got stormies, Stuhs nebels, and mortars which are good at taking out at guns and then they add the precision strike? Blitz didn't need this they've already got very powerful units and abilities, adding the precision strike just them into the most played faction. I think like 80% of all wehr companies are now blitz not just cuz of this but because it's the easier and  powerful axis faction.

[Falcon333]

Volks mines - why were these even added? I've run across like 8 of these in a single game, and when you have cloaked paks that wait until you hit 'em and knock 'em out, its just smh.

Fausts Crit - okay, so you add one vehicle disabler in the volks mines and then you add more onto the fausts? so then you turn a unit whos main downside was its ability to battle tanks into a unit that can protect itself vs any vehicle? Just take the crit out, they're already cheaper than Stickies, more reliable, have longer range and harder to dodge, why did they need crit added?  
 
Precision Strike - okay, so they've already got stormies, Stuhs nebels, and mortars which are good at taking out at guns and then they add the precision strike? Blitz didn't need this they've already got very powerful units and abilities, adding the precision strike just them into the most played faction. I think like 80% of all wehr companies are now blitz not just cuz of this but because it's the easier and  powerful axis faction.

I certainly agree that the precision strike offmap is completely unecessary addition to Blitz.

On the volksmines/faust issue: I thought that the mines were added and the faust crits disabled?
Because a ranged disabler on a 'platform' like volks is a bit over, but when it just builds a static defense, I don't really have a problem with that.

[Killer344]

If you don't have something better to say than claiming "Whermatch > Eveything" without any kind of... support, I'll consider it a rage post.

[Smokaz]

Dude Infantry doctrine 57mms can be geared to almost 1 shot stugs. Whatever armor superiority the opposing wehrmacht doctrine has, he can not stay anywhere near your 57mms with the right abilities.

Ap rounds + Stacking shells = Forget about it. If you have reapers too, just get out of here with your tanks.

Regardless of one rifle squad losing to one grenadier squad, you are supposed to bring up around 8 rifle guys for for grens to not only beat them but to pay the same to do it.

Here's where a different issue comes into play though, the inferiority of the 30 cal at anti infantry duty since both sides will attempt to use supression to overpower the other. Then again in open engagements you have the BAR which is a powerful tool.

Its not that bad all things considered, at least most stuff has a counter even if its harder to defend against than employ.

[AmPM]

Let me see if I can explain this to him.

Wehr = more expensive, better individual units

Ami = cheaper slightly worse individual units, outside of AB/Rangers


Now to your whine in general, learn to play. American TD's are amazingly efficient and far better than a STuG. A single well handled M10 can do a ton of damage to any Axis tank, 2 of them can destroy almost any axis tank (other than a Panther). M18's are amazing as well. Allied light vehicles are also superior platforms.

We all know AB doctrine, Armor doctrine and Infantry doctrine all have really really strong builds.

You just need to stop expecting your cheaper units to go toe to toe with their more expensive enemies 1v1 and win.

[bbsmith]

You just need to stop expecting your cheaper units to go toe to toe with their more expensive enemies 1v1 and win.

That's what I expect 100 Percent of the time.

[Mgallun74]

meh, axis does has slightly better units etc..    but i find most of the time its the players who decide it.. i can play a what i consider a good player with my level8 us account and they can have a new account and they can pretty much kick me around... if i play a person i feel is my level with a level8 company we can have a great game.. if i play somebody who is worse than me (ya, not many) i will pretty much eat them alive..

to me, after all the complaining i have done and so on and played more, its the players...

[Smokaz]

Spam is king

[Mgallun74]

Spam is king

Rifledudes with zooks and carbines and nades lol..?

[kwiatekkek]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE

[lionel23]

Thanks Riki and especially Tym for saying what I'm trying to say.

@ AmPM - Well true I know American stuff is 'cheaper' and less quality outside of the elite infantry, but that produces two problems in and of itself.  In a persistant mod where the unit needs to survive, you don't see a lot of vet 3 M10s compared to vet 3 p4s due to surviability, and then you have the instance where numbers will not overcome firepower.  I've lost 2 rifle squads and 2 rangers to the one man LMG guy who fires a med kit and is vet 3, and lost every squad to the man.  Now yes Wehr is more expensive AND more effective in cases like that (using Terror zeal and such), or when one man with a shrek blows up 2-3 shermans consistantly or runs in and alpha strikes all your AT Guns, which I have happen to me constantly and allied MGs can't suppress him one bit.  And I do know how to play Allies, thank you very much, and I'm offering an analysis of what I think is that the Wehr faction (my mistake for saying Axis, PE is bearable) is a bit all round just better against an equally skilled US player most of the times.

Of course there is always luck involved and the random factor, and I'm not 'raging' as this is from all the games I've noticed I played since I joined EIRR.  I had one 'luck' game where an M10 hit a P4 and only took 5% of its life off, the P4 proceeded to rape an M10 in a front on fight.  Yeah, doesn't happen but what I'm saying is that the M10 consistantly does not pay for its performance.  Misfires, super thin armor and blown away by shit tons of things, while a skirted P4 you can wail on that sucker and it can still get away or outright beat down upgun shermans due to their damage reduction and reload penalty, and there have been plenty of threads on the sherman upgun being not worth its cost, certainly.

@Bobsmith - I would use more AT guns, I use them all the times as Brits because it can cloak, it's hard to use them as US as you deal with cloaking squads or one-man alpha striking grens or axis long range mortars and nebs that you cannot counter if they are properly defended.  Axis AT guns tend to survive just because they can hide, while US ones are always exposed and their locations known.  Drive a sherman into a field to 'flank' a MG team and BOOM, 3 AT guns and a storm squad pop out of no where.  Do the same with a skirted P4 or even better a panther charging the US, you see the one AT gun and focus fire and kill it, or best you decrew it and just shoot the gun so it can't be remanned.  Until they fix Allied Support teams, its very hard for me to justify the cost of the AT Gun, even with reapers as it just gets charged/rushed by the aforementioned one man squads or mortared or tanked to death (via improved barrels/heatrounds and maybe that blitz double firing thing that outfires the AT guns).

@Killer - Support is provided, or shall I just attach all my replays then if that is what you're looking for?  Its in the RGDs or whatnot how Axis mortars have longer range than allied mortars, Allied MG has shorter range and barely suppress.  I've had games where LMGs SUPPRESS my HMG and kill the crew.  Doesn't happen often but I've had it happen.  Or Stugs (who wrote the Stug guide?) with their awesome top mounted MG gunners that charge into infantry and just suppress in 2-3 bursts if its by itself and crush infantry, yet the .50cal will rarely ever do that unless massed.

@Falcon - Fausts still do engine critical damage to my knowledge, which is annoying as there are way more volks with fausts than riflemen with sticky bombs  

@von Luchs - The reason I compare the 88 is that in terms of health and firepower, Wehr at least has the aces on having really tough and really hard hitting units, while the US lacks anything with that (hence why I'm pushing that they really need a sherman jumbo added).  If the weapons were relative I can understand that (one side has weaker AT but fights weaker units.. ala US vs PE) while one side has strong AT fighting strong units (88mm or Tiger vs Churchill tanks), that's what I was trying to illustrate.

I apologize if this thread was a bit more confusing, I probably SHOULD have said Wehr, I just consider them 'axis' in my mind, heh.  PE is just fine, I win some and lose some with them as US and Brits (oh god I do play other armies! Scary isn't it?).  But Wehr as Riki and Tym and I'm saying, it just gives the US a much harder time than usual due to the Improved Barrels or powerful zeal troopers (Blitz/Terror), defense is not a problem in my book, and I am not asking for anything silly like nerf the 88mm, was merely using them for weapon comparison on my point earlier.

[Smokaz]

I just cant agree with the 57mm being unreliable, especially within the infantry doctrine. It being taken out by the other player's efforts is supposed to be countered through your own efforts. British AT is much more lacking than american one.

[lionel23]

I love British AT, I have no problems taking most tanks except super heavies or something, I rather have their AT than US ATGs anyday.

[AmPM]

The 57mm is extremely reliable, it has good range, penetration and high damage + AP rounds. I'm not sure what gun you are using.

That is a problem with the Doctrines, but to be honest, it sounds like most of your problems are coming from zeal grenadiers. Use a sniper or two, while that Terror Gren unit is getting down to 1-2 men, and becoming tougher, it doesn't matter because snipers just don't care, they kill them anyway.

[EliteGren]

I really HATE how british ATGs cant get AP rounds, I would take AP rounds over the cloak any day.

[lionel23]

Want to trade??? 

[Killer344]

Of course there is always luck involved and the random factor, and I'm not 'raging' as this is from all the games I've noticed I played since I joined EIRR.

So, what if I beg to disagree with you using your same logic. It would be "This is what I've noticed from all the games I have played on EiRR/EiR, since I have more experience than you/time spent here, that makes me right", or is it a matter of how many people thinks the same?, so we should just make a poll and let luck balance the game then.

@Killer - Support is provided, or shall I just attach all my replays then if that is what you're looking for?

If you want to, do it, I'm sure a lot of people would be eager to check what you are doing wrong  .

Its in the RGDs or whatnot how Axis mortars have longer range than allied mortars, Allied MG has shorter range and barely suppress.  I've had games where LMGs SUPPRESS my HMG and kill the crew.  Doesn't happen often but I've had it happen.  Or Stugs (who wrote the Stug guide?) with their awesome top mounted MG gunners that charge into infantry and just suppress in 2-3 bursts if its by itself and crush infantry, yet the .50cal will rarely ever do that unless massed.

Range isn't the only thing that matters about a mortar, Allied HMGs aren't meant to deal with just infantry. You've had LMGs that supress HMGs?; I've proven how you can effectively destroy an HMG charging from the front using RRs, such thing would never affect the stats/price of anything because it's a bug, or something where the odds are so low, that don't require to be fixed. Mounted HMG42s trade firepower for supression, you are glorying the weakness of some units while remarking the usefullness of its axis counterpart, I recognize that as an Argument from Ignorance (aka Argumentum ad Ignorantiam).

[bbsmith]

I really HATE how british ATGs cant get AP rounds, I would take AP rounds over the cloak any day.

I agree. AP rounds are so much better than the 6 Pounder Cloak.