EIRR repair system discussion

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[Groundfire]

So, i've been meaning to do this for awhile, but i wanted to re-open up the discussion on the repair system since were on the cusp of the doctrine rework.

To start out, it's good. The repair system we have now has grown on me. It's got it's benefits. Your not wasting your pop cap on flimsy repair pios. Enemy tanks repairing give you some breathing room with repair time limits where the tank is inactive. Stuff like this encourage careful armor usage, because repairing a tank puts you at a pop disadvantage.

I dont feel as if the system is complete tho. It could be refined more.

Repair inactivity is a double edged sword for me. There were times playing that I would've given my left nut to stop my panther's repair just to tip the scales of a firefight my team was losing. Alas, in these situations, id look at my panther and see that it had another minute and a half till repair completion.

Then 10 seconds before the panther's repair is complete, a cheeky rifleman stumbles upon the tank and stickies it's engine. Now you got a 9/10ths health panther with a damaged engine...

Or those other times where the repair kit doesnt do the job, and after a full heal your vehicle still has a damaged engine.

Or those situations where your greyhound runs over a dinky butterfly mine and gets a damaged engine forcing you to burn your repair kit, when butterfly bombs damaging the engine of an armor car is just silly.

Or those situations where you are in a toe to toe fight with rival armor, he's pulling back, and you pursue, your own tank at the point of death, then at the last second, the bastard pops his repair and repairs the criticals as you cause them, buying the enemy tank valuable seconds for help to come in and finish your incredibly wounded tank. Help comes, you lose your tank, and he gets to keep his. Yeah it's risk/reward, but situations like this are just silly.

These are the flaws in the system. It's an system of extremes. We dont have the capability to heal damage criticals and reintroduce the damaged tank into the fight when we would need it the most.
Our current system doesnt allow for the finesse repairing that the old system allowed us to do.

A damaged tank is still out of commission, but if you need it you can stop the engie/pio repairs to reintroduce into the fight. This is what I want back.

What I want is a repair system that has both repair kits and repair units. It can be tweaked and balanced. Right now, we units that do not contribute to the game as they should and should be repair units. Luftwaffe ground forces repairing would go a long way to improve the frail PE vehicle problems.

No one needs to reintroduce repair bunkers, but they are in the game and I think that we should use them. Personally I would love to see the British Armor Command Truck brought into the game as the allies equivilance of the Wehr repair bunker, as it was slated to be in the first doctrine write up.

There are so many ways to balance a system like this. I agree that repair kits should be the primary way to keep tanks in the game, but it wouldnt hurt to have a sublimental repair system with pios/engies at reduced repair rates that can finish up the last stretch of repairs to heal a critical, or heal a bogus mortar engine damaging hit.

Repair bunkers could have scaling population costs. 2/4/6/8 population costs from the owning player if they want multiple repair bunkers. Even then, pios/engies are supplemental repairers, they are slow at the job and would make up alot of useless population to repair at the way repair kits heal tanks now.

If you use your repair kit, the tank gets locked down as prior, but for the repair boost. If balance dictates it, tanks using repair kits are unable to recieve assistance from surrounding repair units.

I want this system to work as if some player wanted to cycle his tiger out more times after the initial repair kit usages, it would take 7-8 units of pios (14-16 pop) a total of 4 minutes to heal half of a badly damaged tiger. The more pios you have working on the vehicles the more pios are reduced in effective repairing, but will still produce a positive net repair result. Or if they were so inclined, use pios to repair damage then use kits to finish off the repairing, just to give you some buffer room if your repairing tank gets ambushed.


So, there you have it. What does everyone think? Discuss.

[Falcon333]

I'd rather see pio's(and engineers, etc...) to repair criticals only, maybe light vehicles aswell.
I like the system now as it is, except fixing those 'stupid' criticals you mentioned.

[NightRain]

I'd love to see the Repair Bunker and Repair units back in action.

Bergetiger could come back too and I like the suggestion of Armored HQ coming in to repair tanks. As well we'd get use for Engineer Sappers for Repairs.

In addition to that, who stops mods from making American their own Repair unit? Similar to Engineer Sappers

[brn4meplz]

I know this system isn't perfect(you cannot halt repairs for one) but the Pio/Engie system was way beyond imperfect. I don't ever want to see that system again. I enjoy the fact that with this system you have to decide when Tanks will start repairs. and that it can affect the outcome of the match. people always ended up repairing on the front lines with Engies anyway. it was only repair bunkers that were ever in the rear.

EiR has a WM medic bunker in the game too but we're not using it for picking up wounded guys are healing. Just because something is there doesn't mean we need to use it.

I Would like to see a second life brought into the bergetiger but not as a repair unit. and I think it giving a health aura is too much considering Jagd's starting HP's

[Groundfire]

EiR has a WM medic bunker in the game too but we're not using it for picking up wounded guys are healing. Just because something is there doesn't mean we need to use it.

OMG uses the medic bunker. Casualties produce a weaker version of the faction's basic infantry squad with like 3/4 or half of the dps and hp of the normal squad variant and there have been virtually no balance issues with it. They are mainly used to recrew.

Im not saying we should do it, but it has been done, and it gives the game levels of depth when you can spend your resources on non combat effective troops and have them being useful.

I agree about the old pio/engie repair system. It was broken to cycle out a stug army, but there was no development on this system in vEIR and only alittle bit done by us in EIRR before it was scrapped for the repair kits.

If pios/engies are reintroduced, i want them as supplemental repairers unable to adequately heal tanks by themselves unless such an amount of pios/engineers are required on the field that they would make that player combat ineffective and useless. That team would essentially be down a player. If the load of repair units was evenly dispersed between players on the team, then they would be fighting at a grave pop disadvantage to keep those repairing units on the field and fight at the same time.

What it will allow you to do is to finish repair jobs, and aid in the repair of criticals when the kits dont do the job, or you dont want to use a kit when you hit a mine or a mortar hits your tank.

[fallensoldier7]

Wear and tear seems to work pretty well in OMG, but I would prefer the current EiRR repiar system to wear and tear.  If you're gonna lose 3/4 hp to one pak shot on your sherman, you might as well not have the sherman on at all.

[CrazyWR]

I think the only thing needed here is the ability to pause or stop repair kits on command, not supplemental repair options(almost all of which favor axis)

[Tymathee]

I think the only thing needed here is the ability to pause or stop repair kits on command, not supplemental repair options(almost all of which favor axis)

r

I agree. I'd love to be able to stop repairs. So what if I lose the rest of the kit, I'd like to be able to toggle it off and get my tank back in the fight.

Maybe return the repair on engies so they can repair buildings and such but not vehicles?  I'd like to see all repair units at least have something back.

then, maybe for PE, to make them different, have their repair system back to normal but maybe halved cuz basically panzer grenz are supposed to be like engineering soldiers. Their units are so fragile, i dont think this would be that much of a big deal, just an idea.

[Falcon333]

How about let engies and pios repair support weapons like ATGs, MGs, Mortars, ...?
There is no option to repair your Support weapons right now.

[EliteGren]

Triage, and after the rework probably a medic bunker.

[Killer344]

We can't make engies or pios or anything repair criticals when we want to, it can't be coded.

[Falcon333]

Triage, and after the rework probably a medic bunker.

I meant the health of the weapon, not the crew.

[Killer344]

Triages heal the gun as well..

[Hicks359]

We can't make engies or pios or anything repair criticals when we want to, it can't be coded.

I could of swore i heard somebody mention somewhere the idea of coding a repair kit so that it will instantly repair a vehicle to full health, then do standard non crit damage back down to the previous health. Heals no actual damage, but fixes the crit.

Coding such a thing would be complicated if it's possible, but as i said... I could of swore i heard that idea, and had no real answer on it.

[EIRRMod]

Well, there are in-game system limits as-well. 
Quite a few of these Id like to implement, but dont yet know how (Only healing damage OR only healing criticals for example, if it can be done - please PM me Im no RGD expert)

There are a few doctrine or warmap unlocks floating around in my head that will allow a bunker unit that can purchase repair 'types' for example (3x lights, 2x med, 1x heavy) that will allow those uses to be used instead of the tanks actual repair slot - similar yet limited version of our old repair system.

[brn4meplz]

I know in vCoh the Sappers repair ability is hand of god style repairing where it fixes crits first. I know because i've dropped so many tanks into Main gun destroyed only to have the up half a second later.(upon reflection I suppose that could have been passing the red health threshold into the yellow marker...?)

[EIRRMod]

I know in vCoh the Sappers repair ability is hand of god style repairing where it fixes crits first. I know because i've dropped so many tanks into Main gun destroyed only to have the up half a second later.(upon reflection I suppose that could have been passing the red health threshold into the yellow marker...?)

Could be, but I'll have a wee look.

The way you describe it makes it sound like its healing just the damage though =/

[Groundfire]

There are a few doctrine or warmap unlocks floating around in my head that will allow a bunker unit that can purchase repair 'types' for example (3x lights, 2x med, 1x heavy) that will allow those uses to be used instead of the tanks actual repair slot - similar yet limited version of our old repair system.

ooohhh, I really like this. But it would be too good to give to just one army.

[EIRRMod]

There are a few doctrine or warmap unlocks floating around in my head that will allow a bunker unit that can purchase repair 'types' for example (3x lights, 2x med, 1x heavy) that will allow those uses to be used instead of the tanks actual repair slot - similar yet limited version of our old repair system.

ooohhh, I really like this. But it would be too good to give to just one army.

It would be unlocked in different ways for each faction, maybe a bunker for one, while access to a 'repair sapper' might be another.  All still using the limited uses however.

[AmPM]

A nice way to add on to the repair system, and bring back heavy tanks as being more useful (mainly Tiger) would be to not only have the repair kits on the tanks, but allow you to buy engineer/pio/sapper/PG squads with an MU using upgrade (say 40-50mu) that repairs a % of a vehicles health.

More useful on big tanks, still useful on small stuff to fix minor issues or destroyed engines.