EIRR repair system discussion

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[Tymathee]

A nice way to add on to the repair system, and bring back heavy tanks as being more useful (mainly Tiger) would be to not only have the repair kits on the tanks, but allow you to buy engineer/pio/sapper/PG squads with an MU using upgrade (say 40-50mu) that repairs a % of a vehicles health.

More useful on big tanks, still useful on small stuff to fix minor issues or destroyed engines.

that sounds good and as for the idea of having it go to full health then back. OMG has a system where when you repair, it lowers the overall health of the unit so it sounds possible, but you'd have to have a way of telling the repairing unit to repair to full health and then damage the tank back to its previous health. Or maybe to 25%/50% or whatever. I think this is possible, let me look in the rgd's, maybe i can figure this out

[EliteGren]

That sounds great actually, you essentially buy repair kits on your pios and are free to use them on any tank or vehicle you want.

There would be 3 choices: Light, Medium And Heavy repair kits.

I dont think anyone wants to see superheavies repair back to full more than once, though if yes they can be priced accordingly.

Still he could waste all his bought repairkits on the same tank, but it would be far more cost effective to have other vehicles repaired.

[EIRRMod]

I think that a compounding cost increase of MU - on a global scale - might work well for this.

For example:
Purchase on a non-vehicle specific unit of a Heavy band-aid
1st - 70MU
2nd - 80MU
3rd - 90MU
or some sort of scaling like we do with BA's

[Tymathee]

I think that a compounding cost increase of MU - on a global scale - might work well for this.

For example:
Purchase on a non-vehicle specific unit of a Heavy band-aid
1st - 70MU
2nd - 80MU
3rd - 90MU
or some sort of scaling like we do with BA's

that could definitely work. would that be unlimited repair or just a one time shot? and what would happen if you stop repairing? what if reparis are active for say, 1 minute and you can repair more than one vehicle in that time if you choose, that way you can stop repairing one tank and then go to the next.

[acker]

On a slightly-tangent topic:

If you made the health of a vehicle jump to 100%, then instantly decay back to the vehicle's original health, could that be a way to create a repair kit that fixes destroyed engines, guns, and tracks?

[RikiRude]

that would be an amazing idea, good call ampm.

one thing though, i think id love to see the chance of getting a damaged engine on light vehicles brought down. how come it ALWAYS damages the engine? why isn't it a 50% chance or something like that?

another thing is repair units could get bonuses with vet which would be cool.

And maybe OBM could be the only thing that allows you to purchase repairs on your vehicle.

[Mysthalin]

To all those that think repair unit repairs, if they were at really low rates, wouldn't be broken, please let me remind you of my 20 sapper PIAT 8 tetrarch 4 cromwell army back in EiRR 03.

I'd call on 6 PIAT sappers and 2 tetrarchs, then cycle the tetrarchs back and forth, repairing one while fighting with the other. Anything that comes for the PIATs gets instant-gibbed. I would repair the tetrarchs from 0 to full within 30 seconds, even with the super low repair rates of old EiR. Imagine if I did all that, but used Staghounds instead of the now obsolete tetrarch? Or roos?

[bbsmith]

The old repair system wouldn't work in EIR in the same way reinforcing wouldn't work in EIR.

[Tymathee]

To all those that think repair unit repairs, if they were at really low rates, wouldn't be broken, please let me remind you of my 20 sapper PIAT 8 tetrarch 4 cromwell army back in EiRR 03.

I'd call on 6 PIAT sappers and 2 tetrarchs, then cycle the tetrarchs back and forth, repairing one while fighting with the other. Anything that comes for the PIATs gets instant-gibbed. I would repair the tetrarchs from 0 to full within 30 seconds, even with the super low repair rates of old EiR. Imagine if I did all that, but used Staghounds instead of the now obsolete tetrarch? Or roos?

eh, no one wants that old antiquated system back. We're just trying to find a way of enhancing the current version into something more manageable.

[LeoPhone]

how about giving tanks a lockdown ability that basicly does the same as the repair kit does now, without the repairing.
you can stop it whenever you want, but with a big delay.

engineers can repair tanks again, but only when they are in this lockdown mode.

[CrazyWR]

To all those that think repair unit repairs, if they were at really low rates, wouldn't be broken, please let me remind you of my 20 sapper PIAT 8 tetrarch 4 cromwell army back in EiRR 03.

I'd call on 6 PIAT sappers and 2 tetrarchs, then cycle the tetrarchs back and forth, repairing one while fighting with the other. Anything that comes for the PIATs gets instant-gibbed. I would repair the tetrarchs from 0 to full within 30 seconds, even with the super low repair rates of old EiR. Imagine if I did all that, but used Staghounds instead of the now obsolete tetrarch? Or roos?

eh, no one wants that old antiquated system back. We're just trying to find a way of enhancing the current version into something more manageable.

how is the current system unmanageable?  It works fine...I don't think it needs changed at all, but I can understand adding a stop or pause option to the repairs if you need that tank in the firefight right then.  Returning alternative repair options to the mod seems like a step backwards at this point honestly...you'd see a ton of armies like what myst posted...

[Tymathee]

To all those that think repair unit repairs, if they were at really low rates, wouldn't be broken, please let me remind you of my 20 sapper PIAT 8 tetrarch 4 cromwell army back in EiRR 03.

I'd call on 6 PIAT sappers and 2 tetrarchs, then cycle the tetrarchs back and forth, repairing one while fighting with the other. Anything that comes for the PIATs gets instant-gibbed. I would repair the tetrarchs from 0 to full within 30 seconds, even with the super low repair rates of old EiR. Imagine if I did all that, but used Staghounds instead of the now obsolete tetrarch? Or roos?

eh, no one wants that old antiquated system back. We're just trying to find a way of enhancing the current version into something more manageable.

how is the current system unmanageable?  It works fine...I don't think it needs changed at all, but I can understand adding a stop or pause option to the repairs if you need that tank in the firefight right then.  Returning alternative repair options to the mod seems like a step backwards at this point honestly...you'd see a ton of armies like what myst posted...

I agree and most of the stuff posted wouldn't allow that to happen and others are just a different way of doing it now.

[AmPM]

how is the current system unmanageable?  It works fine...I don't think it needs changed at all, but I can understand adding a stop or pause option to the repairs if you need that tank in the firefight right then.  Returning alternative repair options to the mod seems like a step backwards at this point honestly...you'd see a ton of armies like what myst posted...

The idea would be to allow purchase of repair kits on engineer units, these kits would replace other weapons upgrades (so no flamer) and cost a fairly decent price in MU (meaning too many and the rest of your company goes to shit).

If all you have is tanks, unupgraded infantry, and pio's with repairs, its a pretty easy game for the other side. Extra repairs does not mean you are going to get through 3 ATGs anytime soon, and without upgraded infantry the support weapons + infantry will push you back further every time you have to repair.

[Osprey]

I like the current system just fine, but this is how I would alter it to fix some of Groundfire's issues...

Repair inactivity is a double edged sword for me. There were times playing that I would've given my left nut to stop my panther's repair just to tip the scales of a fire fight my team was losing. Alas, in these situations, I'd look at my panther and see that it had another minute and a half till repair completion.

Make it an activated repair ability (though you'd still only get one use barring doctrine choices). You click, takes 15 secs to activate, the vehicle repairs for the allocated time with the option to de-activate (again 15s cool down until active again) mid-repairs, but if you deactivate you lose the remaining repair time.

The cool down represents the reaction and/or preparation time for the crew to go from driving to repairing. The repair rate could be increased to keep that total repair time the same. This would keep the tactical need to use it at the right time there, without incapacitating your ability for the tank to defend itself at a crucial moment.

Then 10 seconds before the panther's repair is complete, a cheeky rifleman stumbles upon the tank and stickies it's engine. Now you got a 9/10ths health panther with a damaged engine...

Make it so that during duration all critical damage is at half-quarter chance to be sustained, and is fixed at an improved rate. Not a lot you can do for this though without creating a potential exploit for fixing critical damage. Players just need to be more careful where they repair, how they defend the repairing tank, or make the decision to come out of repairs to defend themselves if needed.

Or those other times where the repair kit doesn't do the job, and after a full heal your vehicle still has a damaged engine.

Again either an improved critical repair rate (if it fails then, take it as read that the damage was irreparable on the battlefield at least) or, if repair bunkers and the like must be re-introduced, make them ONLY repair critical damage and not health? It might sound like a massive repair bunker nerf, but then the system works well as it is, there's no need to introduce secondary repair methods that could lead to potential exploitation. And lets face it, no-one likes to lose a game due to an opponent's repair advantage.

Or those situations where you are in a toe to toe fight with rival armor, he's pulling back, and you pursue, your own tank at the point of death, then at the last second, the bastard pops his repair and repairs the criticals as you cause them, buying the enemy tank valuable seconds for help to come in and finish your incredibly wounded tank. Help comes, you lose your tank, and he gets to keep his. Yeah it's risk/reward, but situations like this are just silly.

Hopefully the activation time would fix that issue. As always though, the 5% bug is your friend and your enemy in these situations.


Anyhow, those are my thoughts. I won't stop playing if repairs are changed back to something akin to the old system, but I'm quite happy with what we have now, where no-one complains about pio or repair bunker spam winning the game.

[Groundfire]

The idea would be to allow purchase of repair kits on engineer units, these kits would replace other weapons upgrades (so no flamer) and cost a fairly decent price in MU (meaning too many and the rest of your company goes to shit).

If all you have is tanks, unupgraded infantry, and pio's with repairs, its a pretty easy game for the other side. Extra repairs does not mean you are going to get through 3 ATGs anytime soon, and without upgraded infantry the support weapons + infantry will push you back further every time you have to repair.

Regardless of what my issues are with the current repair system and the unlucky situations i receive during games, this ^^^^ needs to be tried.

In fact, we could remove repair kits entirely from tanks, and delegate repairing solely to repair units. I like the concept of buying repair kits for repair units. This should deffinately be the next step after doctrine development and warmap.

[Smokaz]

Like current system, like the new ideas. But huge favor of new stuff like the warmap, more game modes, more depth and impact of the games played on the war receiving more attention. I dont like the thought of being able to focus your repairs into single tanks or vehicles. The current system (other than GE and OBM) force you into getting them most out of your vehicles. These doctrines and particulary these two T4's are already very powerful when you are able to maximise their use, giving you a huge number advantage when everything comes down to it.  Tigers and pershings that come back over and over again really doesnt feel WW2-like, sometimes it feels like there are invisible nanomachines repairing the armor.

I also think moving/firing repair is detrimental to the game, dumbing it down and giving the side that has it a unfair advantage over the other which extends to strategy beyond just buffed units or powerful builds. However I do think that it would be very nice if you could stop/resume repairs somehow or if you had like a "LIGHT maintenance" repair option which just healed up any criticals on the tank/vehicle without restoring any significant health, aka the proposed idea with the game doing the following:

- Game gets current health of tank "light maintenance" is activated for
- Game instantly heals up tank removing any criticals
- Damage is instantly dealt back to the tank, non-critical

If people feel like the current system limits the use of their favorite single unit (like a guy having a vet 3 tiger that he calls Tigah) remember that its fully possible to gear your entire company around supporting your favorite unit.

 Just field tons of spotters, tons of perfect support and forget about anything else than breakthrough units for your favored unit type. Its possibly to do this with both snipers, light vehicles tanks etc and so on.

[panzerman]

hmmm

so during repairs the tank can still fight if something attacks it...?
yet now ur repair unit is very fragile yet expensive so all the would need to do is some hit and run tactics....and u stop the repairs for an entire game and made sure they can't repair

but how many repairs can these engineers/ pios do?

[Smokaz]

I also think a equally good and similar idea would be to just implement a mirror T2 for all the armor/vehicle focused doctrines that unlocks a light repair unit.

Armor doctrine, tank hunters, blitzkrieg and royal engineers.

Unlocks a infantry unit with light or crappy weapons. Costs like 80 munitions for a single use, gives 1/3 hp back to any vehicle/tank its applied to. This retains the idea of it being valuable (nobody would waste it on a light vehicle) and fits in with the general theme.

PG repair squad - Expert repair sappers - Engineers with no upgrades - Pios with no upgrades.

They use an ability on a tank/vehicle, and a % hp is restored over time.. Weapon and movement disabled on affected vehicle/tank.

This also gives these doctrines which are pretty self-reliant and one-dimensional in what they provide for the team more support capability.

With this idea, armor gets a welcome infantry presence through the armor player fielding a repair team in the back of the line. Tank hunters get a infantry unit cherished by the terror and defensive players on their team. Blitzkrieg is providing repair support for luftwaffe and scorched earth. Royal engineers are repairing the shermans of their airborne and infantry allies.

[Mukip]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the basic repair system.  As I see people have two complaints:
1: Damaged engines etc not repairing on crippled tanks.
2: A tank with only minor damage from a mine or something having to waste it's repair kit.

Fair enough on the first point.  But being able to damage full-health tanks and force them to weigh up the options of repair kit or limping on is something players should have to deal with in my view.  It's one of the joys of hitting a healthy tank with a mine or sticky, you know you've just forced an unwelcome decision on the other player.

I think Field Repairs and the T4's that allow moving during repairs should have a delayed effect of 15 seconds, that is they take effect 15 seconds to start working after you pop them.  It will make them less capabale of just waltzing out of bad situations and make the player think a bit more.

I'm not so keen on the "repair squads" idea.  Vehicle spam is already an issue do they need more repairs?  I just imagine some people going triple fuel, buying as many vehicles as they can with some double-repairing T4 and then buying 10 of these repair squads on top of that. 

[Mysthalin]

By some people, you mean me, right mukip?


I also agree with you, mukip - if you hit a mine and got engine damage, then it's your call what you want to do. You either save the repair kit, go fight, but risk losing the tank, or you use the repair kit now and then go fight, but the tank won't be able to repair afterwards.

Not to mention all these "ghetto" repairs that only fix up a critical to an almost full health tank after it hits a mine would serve no purpose, other than completely negating such allied tactics like sticky bomb spam(with the effort required to get one off - why should we discourage it?) and "across the board" tactics like mines aboard HTs trapping roads. I can't even remember the last time I saw anyone use a gypsy HT with mines .