British Infantry

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[Computer991]

You're paying for the most expensive option, that's 2 damn pool for infantry to use sappers to reman, that's ridiculously high.  What you should be using to reman are Tommys.

Did you read the thread?
He was saying British are force to use expensive infantry to reman,and i told him he has alternative...they might not be the best,but it works.


READ THE THREAD LIONEL.

[lionel23]

Ummm, so your response is lets use expensive and less effective infantry to reman.... so let's use commandoes too to reman, thats a GREAT OPTION RIGHT THERE.  I did read the thread, learn to actually understand what people reply and not jump the gun and complain here.

[Computer991]

Ummm, so your response is lets use expensive and less effective infantry to reman.... so let's use commandoes too to reman, thats a GREAT OPTION RIGHT THERE.  I did read the thread, learn to actually understand what people reply and not jump the gun and complain here.

They are cheaper than brens........I was just giving him driffrent options on what he can use to reman,he's not forced to use tommies. please tell me how the 180 4 man sapper squad is more expensive than the 5 man 255 squad of tommies

[MonthlyMayhem]

Do Brens provide suppression like the LMG?

[lionel23]

If I recall what Bob told me when I was discussing Bren stats with BARs, they provide almost ZERO suppression, which makes them a little inferior to BARs because they suppress somewhat even on regular fire.

[MonthlyMayhem]

Then leave tommies how they are, no need to nerf the Bren. Even if it is double the fire power, theres no suppression bonus and sure they can button which people mentioned. No need to reduce the effectiveness if it down to one man.. Its pretty even, brens provide no suppression so you get 2 double the firepower, LMG does... Evens out if you ask me.

[Computer991]

If I recall what Bob told me when I was discussing Bren stats with BARs, they provide almost ZERO suppression, which makes them a little inferior to BARs because they suppress somewhat even on regular fire.

Once,i had 3 Bar's on a zeal gren squad with ferocity, i supressed 2 squads...it was great.

[Computer991]

Then leave tommies how they are, no need to nerf the Bren. Even if it is double the fire power, theres no suppression bonus and sure they can button which people mentioned. No need to reduce the effectiveness if it down to one man.. Its pretty even, brens provide no suppression so you get 2 double the firepower, LMG does... Evens out if you ask me.

I've never seen a LMG suppress past close range.

[bbsmith]

All you need to know.

Tommy < Grenadier
Tommy With LT > Grenadier

2 Brens ≈ 1 LMG42
2 Brens with LT> 1 LMG42

[fallensoldier7]

You guys are forgetting about Recon Tommies.  These guys are cheaper in manpower and have less firepower than a regular Tommy squad, but at the same time they have more sight range, the same number of men as a Tommy squad, and a snipe every few minutes.  I ALWAYS use my Recons to re-crew weapons.  At 2 men the Recon squad can still be used for its primary purposes: scouting and sniping.  Save the fighting for your Brens and just save the recrewing for your Recons.  If you're looking for a good way to call infantry on, then use infantry call-ins of 1 bren and 1 recon squad.  This way you can spread out the brens and the recon squads in your company, meaning you won't be caught with your pants down if you suddenly need brens or scouting info.  The way I used to use my Brits guaranteed that there would always be at least 1 bren squad and 1 recon squad on the field.

Sappers are a bad investment if you're going to use them for re-crewing.  Just pay a little more manpower and get a Tommy squad, which is also 1 less pool cost.

Never use elite infantry to recrew stuff (includes KCH).  Idk how that even got into the discussion.  That's like a rule of thumb, ESPECIALLY in EiRR where there are no reinforcements.  

@DisposableHero

Tommies do NOT need an LT to make them effective.  The LT definitely helps, but Tommies can be beasts even without LT support.  Don't get me wrong: every British army should have at least 2 LTs if they plan on being very infantry heavy, but it's not like you should completely avoid an engagement just because you don't have an LT on the field.  In my past experiences with British infantry, better usage of cover and focus firing can make a much larger impact on an engagement than the presence of an LT.

[AmPM]

Check this out

Tommies with Brens cost more than Grens with LMGs

Grens with LMG + Medkit = win

Cost less than Tommy w/ Bren

[Tymathee]

Then leave tommies how they are, no need to nerf the Bren. Even if it is double the fire power, theres no suppression bonus and sure they can button which people mentioned. No need to reduce the effectiveness if it down to one man.. Its pretty even, brens provide no suppression so you get 2 double the firepower, LMG does... Evens out if you ask me.

I've never seen a LMG suppress past close range.

I have, several times. Play as allies more and you'll see it happen.

My take on this is that British infantry are expensive and cost a lot of pool. I think the most i was able to field were about 10-12 and that was with 1 LT and no sappers or captains. When i added sappers and more officers, i got down to about 8 with 1 lt 2 caps and 4 sapppers (this was my rca, larger pool)  

I think where tommies are better than grens are the fact that they're 5 mean instead of 4, but you know what? I'd rather have grens, know whY? They get schrecks and med packs and grenades, then add in assault.

volks get fausts and assault and mp40's and medpacks and vehicle slowing mines.

So, in a bit of sacrifice to overall firepower, the axis infantry have a much higher versatility.

tommies also take a bit of patience ot play with, you can't be aggresive like you can be volks, and you have to stand still for brens to really be effective. the rifle nades are seriously inaccurate unless you're firing at something in green cover or in bulidings. On the other hand, i've seen lmg's own infantry in green cover easy

on another note, vet 0 Volks with assault > Vet 3 Bren tommy with vet 2 LT.

If you go 1v1 both standing still in open cover.

[DisposableHero]

No, you don't need an LT. But you're going to want one, right? And by taking officers, you are going to have less Tommies because a) the MP cost and b) Officers use the infantry pool, too.

I'm talking about the Tommy in the context of the British faction overall, not simply the unit on its own. Each faction has its own particular dynamic which reflects how they are played and how the companies are constructed. For the British, its their quality - yet few - infantry, backed up by officers. The Tommy might be pretty tough, but its certainly not the toughest thing out there and you are paying for that toughness.

My point is that part of the British dynamic is also that you don't have a cheap, numerous, 1 Pool Value infantry unit to do the things PGs, Volks and Rifles do and that can be a disadvantage too. You might say its overkill to use Tommies in that manner..

Sure, you can get Recons - but they are 2 Pool and an attached munitions cost. Seems like a waste for something just to cap and recrew with, right? You could use unupgraded Tommies, but you can't get too many because of their cost and other infantry pool requirements. Its equally difficult to squeese in lots of 2 pool Sappers for the same reason.

What I'm saying is that when we consider the strengths of a faction's basic infantry unit - and the Tommy is indisputedly the workhorse of the British - we have to consider what it brings to that faction and how it works with everything else. Its not simply a question of whether they are imba or need nerfing, as the OP and vote suggest, but what role they have.

And I would argue they are fine. Good, but expensive and few in number - with all the associated advantages and disadvantages that entails.

[Mysthalin]

The part where computer says that the Bren is equal to an LMG42... You couldn't be any more wrong

This is what Zaxis DPS calculator says about the base damage of the LMG42 and the Bren :

//////////            LMG42    Bren
Short                  22.01   12.07
Medium               6.298    5.209
Long                   1.828    2.099
Overall                8.851    5.836
Avg under 25       11.295   7.332

So, the two brens together deal slightly more damage than the LMG42, except at long range where the LMG42 is quite out-classed... But at long range, you're not killing anything with either brens OR LMG42s, so it doesn't matter that much.

Both squads have 3 more rifles in their group, however.
The K98 Grenadier happens to be more than twice as good as the Lee Enfield at all ranges.

So overall - a Grenadier squad will win against a tommy squad. No matter if they're both vanilla, or both have their LMG upgrade.




On the point about suppression. Brens do indeed suppress. Just, at such a slow rate, it's just not wise to ever expect it to happen - you would need over 300 bullets firing NON-STOP at close range to suppress ANYTHING. Guess how many times that happens?

[Malgoroth]

Canadian Infantry... better than tommies? Cheaper? What's the story on those?

[Mysthalin]

Exact, carbon copy of the standard tommies. Only for flavor.

[Blitzen]

Sniper Micro + Assault nades > Britt vet blob.

[LCII^Bun-Bun]

Exact, carbon copy of the standard tommies. Only for flavor.

Hmmm, now I want a milkshake with canadian infantry flavor... yum...

[Computer991]

The part where computer says that the Bren is equal to an LMG42... You couldn't be any more wrong

lol congrats on always being right you get a nice little "Win" pin

and i said they were equal before i noticed the Rate of Fire

[Mukip]

Sappers suck at remanning because you can only do it once with them.  Costs 255 manpower for one Tommy squad (2 recrews) and 360 manpower for two Sapper squads to do the same.