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Author Topic: New computer...  (Read 7292 times)
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Malevolence Offline
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« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2010, 12:23:47 pm »

GIGABYTE motherboards are good motherboards that are fairly cheap. I have a gigabyte motherboard.

Speaking of motherboards, splurge on the motherboard. Since everything revolves around it, it's good to have an awesome one. Plus it'll give you more flexibility with the processor selection.

Some points:

1) I agree that GIGABYTE makes good, solid products. I have an UD3R myself, and it was well priced and, well, durable, as it claimed.
2) I disagree that you need to "splurge" on the motherboard. Your motherboard should be a solid, mid-budget part. While it is, arguably, one of the most important parts of your computer, there is nothing that having an uber board over a "sufficient" board will get you besides, possibly, better overclocking results. Assuming we're not talking overclocking here, though, because then we're going to need a whole new set of parts...


Quote
Everyone has their own opinion, especially on graphics cards. ATI is perfectly fine, but I prefer nvidia. Just make sure that you don't spend too much money. Like I said before, I would splurge on the motherboard. Not necessarily on the craziest one, but mainly just in terms of performance. i understand that most hard core motherboards are pretty much just b.s. for the uneducated buyer. GIGABYTE is a trusted brand with decent warrenties. I would suggest that brand and would NOT suggest buying motherboards from companies that produce graphics cards (aka Nvidia). They charge you more money for a motherboard that isn't really any better than others of the like. Basically you're paying for the brand.

Unless you are going to use SLI, avoid NVidia chipset boards. They are plagued with stability problems, or were, and frankly I don't trust them from all of that. AMD makes decent products for a decent price, but for performance I still prefer Intel. Contrarily, AMD's ATi division currently has the graphics card market locked down in my eyes - they provide one driver update per month and have the highest performing cards, the best value cards, really their current products run the gamut from most efficient to most powerful. There is no price bracket where ATi is not competetive or superior to NVidia's current offerings. That may change with the release of the G300 architecture from NVidia, but we will just have to wait and see. If you don't want to wait, then buy ATi according to budget and you won't go wrong.


Quote
You don't need crazy motherboards and graphics cards even for hard core gaming. I am the definition of a hard core gamer and I can run CRYSIS on ultra with my single 275 card at 40 fps. Don't get pulled into the web.

The GTX 275 is one of the most powerful graphics boards in the world, it's no wonder it can run Crysis on Ultra with 40 FPS (I'm assuming minimal or no AA here). Crazy motherboards, despite what you yourself suggest (irony much?) are definitely not necessary.


The order of importance for items in a gaming machine by budget are:

1) Graphics Card. No graphics card means no games. The more powerful the better, expect to devote up to 50% of your budget on graphics.
2) Power Supply. No power means no computer, end of story. Get a solid, proper wattage power supply with a decent efficiency rating. PSU death can mean the death of EVERYTHING, do not cheap out on the power supply.
3) Processor. The only other part that provides large bonuses to gaming framerates, but generally in threshold levels (if it limits the GPU it hurts your FPS, if it doesn't, you will see minor gains from increasing clockspeed). Either way, after graphics and power, CPU is next.
4) Motherboard. Should be solid, if it goes you have problems.
5) Everything else. RAM, HDD, Case, Fans, blue LEDs, duct tape, a burger and fries from McDonald's. None of this will drastically affect your gaming performance, it can all be pretty much on the cheap side if you don't have the money for it.

Quote
I agree but everyone has their own opinion. I prefer nvidia and intel for my graphics card and processor...plus nvidia is cheaper than ATI but the cards are better.

That is a horrifically inaccurate generalized statement. NVidia and ATi are fairly competetive at most price and performance points, with ATi currently holding the top performance crown and generally with more selections in the mid-range cards while NVidia has put their innovation focus primarily on the upper high end, where ATi is also fairly competetive, but has fewer offerings.
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BigDick
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« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2010, 01:02:59 pm »

There are no reasons at all to get ... nVidia instead of ati atm, unless.. you really like their logos Roll Eyes.

there is maybe one reason

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BQez2RN_uk

nvidia has no monkeys working in driver team  Roll Eyes like ati  Undecided
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Killer344 Offline
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« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2010, 04:13:27 pm »

yeah, but ATI's raw performance greatly outweighs the drawbacks of their "crappy" drivers. I've been running a HD4770 Crossfire since the 1st week they were released and I have never run into any major issue.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 04:16:12 pm by Killer344 » Logged

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Malevolence Offline
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« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2010, 05:50:13 pm »

Their drivers are fine, since when are they crappy? They fix errors very quickly, too, due to their rapid release schedule, so you aren't stuck with "when it's done" like NVidia has.
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BigDick
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« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2010, 07:30:05 pm »

they did not even had anisotropic filtering available in cat 9.11 or 9.12 because of a driver bug
games like gothic3 or gothic2 are not working or are working with glitches
the saboteur didnt worked when it was released
there are many games where is no antialiasing available when they get released
...

the hardware is very good but the drivers are crap (depends on what games are you running)
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3rdCondor Offline
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« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2010, 10:55:00 pm »

for the record:

I don't SLI so if you're into that then I'd ask someone else. Just like my tanks in EIR, I prefer one big thing to take care of everything.


Another thing:
I don't think I made it clear about what I meant by splurge on the motherboard. Basically I meant to get a really good motherboard that will last you a long time. Upgrading components is something that I do a lot, but upgrading motherboards is just too much of a pain for me and I just end up getting a new machine. I wasn't trying to contradict myself by saying after that "watch out for crazy motherboards." Basically I was talking about the motherboards where you're paying extra money for basically the same thing.

I've heard that ATI is better with SLI and I always hear friends complaining about their SLI issues and they have Nvidia cards, but I honestly don't know or even care which is better.
I don't recommend doing SLI because I'm a hard core gamer and I DONT NEED IT. THe only time I could understand it is if you have old graphics cards and you want to boost performance, but then you might as well just buy a single better card because you'll have all the PSU issues and the price will end up being high enough that you might as well buy a new card. Since you're buying a new pc, I'm assuming that you're gonna get a new card, so you are probably not going to need to SLI.

« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 10:57:15 pm by 3rdCondor » Logged

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Computer991 Offline
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« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2010, 11:14:10 pm »

@_@ back on topic,anyone have any decent cheap builds to recommend to me? the one aloha showed me was great too bad getting 700 dollars soon isn't too easy :p
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pqumsieh Offline
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Posts: 2367


« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2010, 02:40:12 am »

you could whore yourself out twice a week instead of just once. might help with the cash issue.

PQ
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BigDick
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« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2010, 03:15:20 am »

I've heard that ATI is better with SLI and I always hear friends complaining about their SLI issues and they have Nvidia cards, but I honestly don't know or even care which is better.

actually its the way arround

- you have much earlier SLI driver profiles than profiles for Crossfire
- the driver profiles of NV SLI are editable (e.g. bei tools like http://nhancer.com/ ) with ATI crossfire you may need to try renameing the .exe files to some where Crossfire Profiles exists (trial and error)

but actually Multi GPU like SLI and Crossfire sucks nowadays because of "Microlags"
in 3DFX (voodoo) times the method for Multi GPU was SFR (splite frame rendering) means all GPUs work on same frame and each render a seperate horizontal line
nowadays that isnt possible with useable efficiency because of shaders, postprocessing effects etc. thats why AFR (alternate frame rendering) method is used, which means each GPU renders its own frame

the disadvantage is that you may get e.g. 30 frames per second but depending how long each single Frame takes there are many time variations between the single frames in that second
in worst case there may exist 2 following frames with the time difference of almost zero and on the other side 2x(1000/30)ms
that will cause stuttering
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 03:17:06 am by BigDick » Logged
Malevolence Offline
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« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2010, 05:55:16 am »

they did not even had anisotropic filtering available in cat 9.11 or 9.12 because of a driver bug
games like gothic3 or gothic2 are not working or are working with glitches
the saboteur didnt worked when it was released
there are many games where is no antialiasing available when they get released
...

the hardware is very good but the drivers are crap (depends on what games are you running)

Really? That's very uncharacteristic of their driver department, ever since I got my 4870 I'd been updating my drivers constantly until 9.8 a few months back and never had an issue with any release. Guess it's a good thing I started to forget to keep doing it :p

Quote from: 3rdCondor
for the record:

I don't SLI so if you're into that then I'd ask someone else. Just like my tanks in EIR, I prefer one big thing to take care of everything.

I much prefer single card solutions myself, less hassle, but it is always a thing to keep in mind that although Crossfire is slightly less powerful of a solution than SLI, it is supported on almost all motherboard chipsets, be they from AMD, Intel, or sometimes even NVidia (they forget to remove the support for their competitor from their Intel-based chipsets sometimes :p) whereas SLI is supported ONLY on NVidia chipset boards, which are, as I mentioned, a bit sub-par.


Quote
Another thing:
I don't think I made it clear about what I meant by splurge on the motherboard. Basically I meant to get a really good motherboard that will last you a long time. Upgrading components is something that I do a lot, but upgrading motherboards is just too much of a pain for me and I just end up getting a new machine. I wasn't trying to contradict myself by saying after that "watch out for crazy motherboards." Basically I was talking about the motherboards where you're paying extra money for basically the same thing.

For this, then, I mostly agree. You need a solid motherboard, but you do not need anything too fancy.

Quote
I've heard that ATI is better with SLI and I always hear friends complaining about their SLI issues and they have Nvidia cards, but I honestly don't know or even care which is better.
I don't recommend doing SLI because I'm a hard core gamer and I DONT NEED IT. THe only time I could understand it is if you have old graphics cards and you want to boost performance, but then you might as well just buy a single better card because you'll have all the PSU issues and the price will end up being high enough that you might as well buy a new card. Since you're buying a new pc, I'm assuming that you're gonna get a new card, so you are probably not going to need to SLI.

I never recommend SLI or Crossfire as an initial solution, except where you are shooting for a very specific performance target (generally upper high end) and a very specific, inflexible budget to achieve that result where sometimes Crossfire or SLI will result in the proper outcome but a single card will not.


I'd suggest a build, but my knowledge of CPUs is getting a bit outdated at this point. Again, though, expect to spend about 50% of your budget on the graphics card if it's for gaming.
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nugnugx Offline
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« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2010, 06:20:18 am »

NOICE PC MATE !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2O-NmmdC6Y
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