2 mines for pios nondoctrinal?

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[Smokaz]

Pioneers with 2 mines and goliaths would be absolutely absurd.

 The argument that "allies get it, so should axis" (vice versa) is a method of balance reasoning that has time and time again proved to be ineffective and illogical. And yet as many times as it is used, I'm still surprised to see it used here.

 Axis pioneers get goliaths, so should americans? Hell no.

 I disagree with this idea completely.

 -Wind

Def pios.

[Smokaz]

Some of you guys are vastly ill-informed on the balance direction. Look at minesweeper implentation. Equal for all.

[Baine]

More mines = bigger need for minesweepers = opens new level of gameplay = good.

And goliaths? They are hardly what they used to be, no need to get more than 1. So much awarness and detection even on vehicles, everything detects it before it can reach anyone.

[CafeMilani]

i think theres no good argument against giving pioneers a 2nd mine for the same price engies get them.

[TheWindCriesMary]

Def pios.

 As to double mines, yes it is already in the game and yes it is a suitable perk for the Defensive doctrine. This means that if someone is willing to pick that doctrine, and pay the pps for the abillity, then they can have the option to have pioneers with 2 mines

 Please read all posts carefully before posting. Otherwise we would spend all day putting in corrections that serve no purpose, and aren't necessary.

 -Wind

[CafeMilani]

they would have tripple mines then or sth.

[TheWindCriesMary]

 Aloha that post was in reference to Smokaz' putting in an observation that Def pioneers already get 2 mines, despite the fact that this was a bafflingly unnecessary reminder.

 
  As to your statement that there is no good reason t for not giving Pioneers 2 mines, it is no more valid (not saying it is valid at all) than the opposite argument that there is no good reason for giving pioneers mines.

 That is to say, once both sides have made their cases and remain unconvinced, it then becomes purely a subjective stalemate and the devs will have to ultimately decide based on the points given.

 -Wind

[gamesguy2]

And goliaths? They are hardly what they used to be, no need to get more than 1. So much awarness and detection even on vehicles, everything detects it before it can reach anyone.

So you would be ok with giving it to engineers then?

[Malevolence]

Even with mine detectors being dirt cheap, it's harder to counter them than you're making it seem.
I played against Wind's tellerspam the other day, I had mine detectors and mine flails all over the place but that still didnt stop my team from running into them. (It's really not that convenient to keep a 2 man detector squad alive in a dangerous combat environment)

In addition, the sheer thought that there could be a mine anywhere on the field makes the game fairly unenjoyable (heavily restricting mobility, etc) to play. You're better off playing minesweeper if you like it so much :p

The psychological effects of minespam are just as bad if not worse for gameplay than the spam itself

Because mine detectors are dirt cheap it's easier to counter them than you're making it seem.
I played against wind's tellerspam the other day, I had mine detectors and mine flails all over the place and that stopped my team from running into them. (It's really easy to keep a 2 man detector squad alive in a dangerous combat environment)

In addition, the sheer thought that there could be a mine anywhere on the field makes the game extremely enjoyable (heavily restricting mobility, etc) to play. Real life had mines, not just mine sweeper.

The psychological effects of minespam are just as good if not better for gameplay than the spam itself.


Opinions. Fuck yeah?

[Baine]

And goliaths? They are hardly what they used to be, no need to get more than 1. So much awarness and detection even on vehicles, everything detects it before it can reach anyone.

So you would be ok with giving it to engineers then?

Sure go on, i rather take demo charges on my Pios.

[NightRain]

I somewhat agree with the folks here.

Mines are the easiest thing to counter. 80 mp 10 mun and 1 pop. These fellows aren't spotters. Imo their LoS should be decreased to kill the use of them being a spotter.

Mines reduce the mobility as stated several times. Who reads CoH Tips? Place mines on your flank to prevent enemy from flanking you.

CoH tips rules

[Masacree]

Why are engineers even 3 pop? Just make them 2 pop like pios. Or the other way around (up pios to 3 pop)

[Unkn0wn]

Mines are the easiest thing to counter. 80 mp 10 mun and 1 pop. These fellows aren't spotters. Imo their LoS should be decreased to kill the use of them being a spotter.

Have you played against a high level player spamming mines? I can assure you its harder to counter than a lot of people here are making it seem. I'm sure Wind can concur from his perspective.

[puddin]

In the current state of EIRR, Mines are no ment to be Overwhelming on the field of battle, unless you truly pay a lot for it. 

Want a movable mine, get a Goliath with your mind and it can do some serious dmg.

Mines used sparingly are much more effective and with small army sizes...  mines are ve devastating in their limted uses as is.

[Evilnrg]

give axis 2 mines and let allies place DEMO anywhere they want  just like old times

[CafeMilani]

would be a nice t3 if not a t4

[gamesguy2]

give axis 2 mines and let allies place DEMO anywhere they want  just like old times

Yes we really need more invisible units insta-gibbing entire squads.

[RaptorCommander]

Since minsweepers are now a low cost low pop counter giving more mines to factions/doctrines should be considered.

But first we need to address a critcal point to the current system, call in times.

All minsweeper only callins should arive on field instantly so you can get the counter when you need/want it instead of waiting 2 mins and increaseing the length of future call ins.

Also can minsweepers be made dropable?

[DuckOfDoom]

WISE FROM YOUR GRAAAAVE!

I have an idea - how about making mines dedicated? As in, you would have dedicated AT and AI mines. The code is in the game, since tellers can only be triggered by vehicles - it should be doable.

My only problem with mines is their cost effectivenes vs vehicles. Against infantry, mines arent actually that great! Perhaps, it could be intresting to expreriment with the idea of having anti-tank mines with high immobilization rate, and anti infantry mines which can get pretty good at killing infantry, rather than gibbing one guy.

This will help to move away from the problem of one-size-fits-all mines. I am leaning more towards having LESS mines on the field (since it does make the gameplay slower-paced), but at the same time making them an attractive defensive option. I would gladly drop 60-90 munitions on a mine that has a high chance to immobilize/destroy engine on a tank, or an equal amount on a mine that can cause 30%-50% casualities on a squad. That would make minesweepers even more viable, and the mine metagame would change from simple spam to something more tactical.

[Masacree]

Mines are awesome versus infantry. Suppressed infantry is dead infantry.