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[Jazlizard]

I understand it will be changing, but the cost can be set to 0 pretty simply no? at least in the meantime?

As for 25% of the player base base leaving I can't vouch for that, I have serious doubts that 25% of the players play for the grind.

[Killer344]

25% of the playerbase left back in aug 09 when we made them free, this is a fact. I can't exactly tell you why, but what matters is that it happened. And that's the reason why we won't do it again, ever.

[winisez]

I guess its probably a larger proportion than of people who just leave not to come back ( due to just getting bored). Probably.

[Jazlizard]

This probably had more to do with Off Map and OP doctrine spam than anything, but I concede the point since it's rather obvious to me now that this will not happen.

Although it is rather disconcerting don't you think that 25% of your player base would leave when they reach the end game don't you think? This sorta reminds me of bad MMO beta testing where the majority of the focus winds up going to the first 1/2 of the levels and the rest of the game is crap because only a small portion of the players got to test that area.

I still don't think the reason people left is because they got free doctrines, but given your definitive answer regarding doctrines being free I'll let it drop, I see I can't persuade you otherwise.

EIRRmod I appreciate the work you do, I really do. There are just some smaller things that seem that could be done that wouldn't take much time that would have large and positive impacts on the mod that I think are being put aside for large picture items, and while I think it's great that your on track to finally possibly get a WAR map and all the other features we've been waiting for, for years and years I just feel there are simple things that need changed that get left alone for too long.

[Smokaz]

There's sparse reason to conclude that doctrines being free led to a playerbase loss.. two events coinciding does not necessitate that they are related.. there could be other factors that lead to playerbase loss that we don't see, and when no real investigation of it was ever done it seems reaching logic at best to assume it was so

[Killer344]

One of the most obvious reason was that you could set up with a couple of friends epic gimmick companies in a matter of minutes. Like 3 blitzs players with p4 spam buffed by doctrines = around 15 buffed p4s on a 3vs3 ain't fun, neither 6 heavy tanks, or mass infantry spam, etc. Stuff like that is rare with a grind involved.

[deadbolt]

the reason there isnt a big response is because people who are new consider it a beta without much in it. when people who've been in the community a while know it's all being built up towards the warmap etc, we have anticipation whilst newcombers dont have much of an idea whats going on let alone what kind of changes and exciting things are heading this way. the only reason our player base isnt growing is because people struggle to setup and dont have the anticipation we have. the first bad experience will spread bad word and more than likely not make the player in question want to attempt to give the mod a second chance.

[Jazlizard]

Killer that really is a terrible argument. People will still do what you say if they want to, the only factor will be time. I really don't need doctrines to make a grief/gimmick company, I've already played against several after the reset.

[Smokaz]

One of the most obvious reason was that you could set up with a couple of friends epic gimmick companies in a matter of minutes. Like 3 blitzs players with p4 spam buffed by doctrines = around 15 buffed p4s on a 3vs3 ain't fun, neither 6 heavy tanks, or mass infantry spam, etc. Stuff like that is rare with a grind involved.

which has more to do with poor balancing, if poor balancing wasn't there youd be able to do the same by spending time to do it there, but it wouldnt be problematic. without poor balance it wouldnt matter because a gimmick wouldnt be problematic, with bad balance back then and massive grinding you could achieve the same spend all your time on it like jaz states above :/ and your opponents would have the exact same opportunity to play how they wanted to

plus grief/gimmick companies are still available on a level 1 account, but without doctrine stuff, which makes them weaker but still doable

massive grinding is back, and having problems grow slower over time is a complete surrendering to the prospect of not being able to construct a balanced game at all and just trying to hush it down or make it hard to get the imbas. which sucks

[Killer344]

Killer that really is a terrible argument. People will still do what you say if they want to, the only factor will be time. I really don't need doctrines to make a grief/gimmick company, I've already played against several after the reset.

You obviously weren't here when we did it, free doctrines allows an unprecendented level of gimmicky shit.

[Computer991]

the reason there isnt a big response is because people who are new consider it a beta without much in it. when people who've been in the community a while know it's all being built up towards the warmap etc, we have anticipation whilst newcombers dont have much of an idea whats going on let alone what kind of changes and exciting things are heading this way. the only reason our player base isnt growing is because people struggle to setup and dont have the anticipation we have. the first bad experience will spread bad word and more than likely not make the player in question want to attempt to give the mod a second chance.

THIS

/thread


lower the grind = more players...

I could care less of the RPG aspect if we dont have a player base big enough to get games going.

[Jazlizard]

I was here. Been here through a lot of things really. Some of those people are thankfully not here anymore and I would say the community as a whole is a bit better than it has been in the past in some aspects.

If players are abusing game mechanics to grief isn't that something they can be punished for?

[Smokaz]

so basically, in the scenario where the combined gimmick of some level 9s = bad for gameplay, time is some kind of limiter that smooths over? you'll still have a shit latewar experience for players

[Killer344]

On a normal grind you won't be able to team up with other 2 players using your same company Smokaz, you should know. The chances of facing a 3x OBM team, or 3x m1 carbines team are very rare, free doctrines would make that kind of stuff common.

Anyway there will be probably no more grind soon, like EIRRMod SAID IT A BILLION times... huh, people just seem to ignore him.

[deadbolt]

not everyone reads the forums every minute of every day, update the homepage with these kind of announcements and you wont get as much moaning and whining all the time, heck, why not invest in writers for the forum just to keep some form of constant update to the public on the homepage? instead of relying on ONE guy to do EVERYTHING.

[Killer344]

He said it 1 page ago . And there's nothing to write about until how the new system will work is decided tbh.

[EIRRMod]

This probably had more to do with Off Map and OP doctrine spam than anything, but I concede the point since it's rather obvious to me now that this will not happen.

Although it is rather disconcerting don't you think that 25% of your player base would leave when they reach the end game don't you think? This sorta reminds me of bad MMO beta testing where the majority of the focus winds up going to the first 1/2 of the levels and the rest of the game is crap because only a small portion of the players got to test that area.

I still don't think the reason people left is because they got free doctrines, but given your definitive answer regarding doctrines being free I'll let it drop, I see I can't persuade you otherwise.

EIRRmod I appreciate the work you do, I really do. There are just some smaller things that seem that could be done that wouldn't take much time that would have large and positive impacts on the mod that I think are being put aside for large picture items, and while I think it's great that your on track to finally possibly get a WAR map and all the other features we've been waiting for, for years and years I just feel there are simple things that need changed that get left alone for too long.

Jazlizard - I hear what you are saying - however, you seem to ignore what *IM* saying.

Grind is due to be addressed when I get time - atm this isnt now.

[Pak88mm]

so basically, in the scenario where the combined gimmick of some level 9s = bad for gameplay, time is some kind of limiter that smooths over? you'll still have a shit latewar experience for players

so far early lev is shit. grind gets to everyone and most people by now avoid certain players so that multiplies length and time to get games. At least you dont deal with gimmick cos as much.

mid lev everyone is almost at same lev but by now games are still hard to come by and you are still figuring out how to build your co. once again the endless grind to get to your T4s.

Late game now the OP abilities shine and like we saw.....allies outnumbered axis almost 3 allies to every 1 axis. Gimmick Cos now shine since any swinging dick can create a lev 1 account, get noob adv and spam to his hearts desire after a few games. What worse this are also obvious griefing Cos. going after high lev players vet and just outright pissing people off.

Summary.....shit all around complicated by grind. i dont care if ya increase XP or not its going to be shit all around. and quite frankly then craziest shit that needs to be done is adding anonymous match making system once everything is on the plate. dodging is becoming shall we say...the issue that has been swept under the rug.

[Pak88mm]

There really isn't any downside with giving free doctrines, no one plays a MMO to grind, it's a feature everyone hates, they just want to get to the end and hopefully the content along the way is worth it to keep going.

uhmmm.. the last time we gave free docs for everyone, 25% of the playerbase left.... so I guess there is after all.

if i remember right...most left do to no big updates and no real war map. i left for awhile during that period as well. the game had become stagnant before the free docs and adv it got exciting for a few weeks then everyone realized no update was coming soon.

[Smokaz]

good posts pak, educate the people!