[CW] Nerf button & no button during Blitzkrieg Assault

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[LeoPhone]

Botton is easy to back out of off unless you have very poor micro.

you might think that. but this is only the case if the button is used at complete max range.
this doesnt often happens coz button has 30 range. (stickey bomb has 14 range)
button can also be used right away. result is that u get buttoned easy with range to spare so u cant back out.
with bren carrier MG you can just rush right into the tank. not to mention kangaroos...

[gamesguy2]

Botton is easy to back out of off unless you have very poor micro.

you might think that. but this is only the case if the button is used at complete max range.
this doesnt often happens coz button has 30 range. (stickey bomb has 14 range)
button can also be used right away. result is that u get buttoned easy with range to spare so u cant back out.
with bren carrier MG you can just rush right into the tank. not to mention kangaroos...

It's pretty easy to kite button, unlike stickies, it doesn't go through buildings and hedges, and thus you can kite it like you would kite normal infantry.

How is a bren carrier or kangaroo buttoning all that different from jeeps blocking?

[Masacree]

Botton is easy to back out of off unless you have very poor micro.

you might think that. but this is only the case if the button is used at complete max range.
this doesnt often happens coz button has 30 range. (stickey bomb has 14 range)
button can also be used right away. result is that u get buttoned easy with range to spare so u cant back out.
with bren carrier MG you can just rush right into the tank. not to mention kangaroos...

It's pretty easy to kite button, unlike stickies, it doesn't go through buildings and hedges, and thus you can kite it like you would kite normal infantry.

How is a bren carrier or kangaroo buttoning all that different from jeeps blocking?

Jeeps die in one shot to paks?

[LeoPhone]

+ jeep block can fail. button doesnt.

and trust me, you cannot kite button.

[NightRain]

A well made attack by tank and hordes of infantry can be defeated by: one MG, Bren squad and a ATG.

Ingame- it just happens and work

people can say anything they want, it'll happen- always Bren button fails only in certain spots but generally 80% it works- or then I'm just pr0 with brensquads

[Tymathee]

dont send your tanks without infantry support? Its your fault for not supporting it, not the "opness" of button. Fact is, it's completely vulnerable while it's buttoning and can even be ran over by a tank cuz it wont dodge. So even if you have a single volks squad nearby, you could be able to take it out.

Plus, its 30 range, most tanks are 40 range, you can kite button just like people kit schrecks which btw is 35 range.

[winisez]

A lot of shrek kiting is just remaming at long range for the shrek, not actually staying beyond 35, it only works because shreks miss a lot. When does button fire miss? I think its fine as it is, but your argument as to why it is fine isnt very good.  The problem I do see with button is that its very unforgiving, its a reasonably cheap ability which in the hands of a good player means 1 mistake with your 500 fuel panther means its dead...

[Tymathee]

yes but if you're trying to kite it, ur going to stay at its max range and even if it does catch you, you'll get out of it

[winisez]

That is true, the biggest thing with button ( on tommies due to bren gun) is the unit can deal with light infantry and ward off tanks, unlike say a shreck team, where its anti tank deterrent actually decreases its versatility. That is the strength of button, that upgrade makes the unit more versatile, improving its anti infantry and adding a new dimension to the unit as a whole, it gives it a tank deterrent.

[MultiDoc]

If i may, button ability was in original CoH because (as already mentioned by others) the Brits anti-tank abilities were quite poor at the time.

My personal experience in-game, is that 9 out of 10 times a tank gets buttoned, it's dead.

[winisez]

I wouldnt quite go that far, it REALLY REALLY comes down to the player, simply pulling off a button does not mean tank is dead, it jsut creates an opportunity for you to bring your other AT to kill the target. However in the hands of a good brit player with a solid team, yes I would say if the tank is buttoned, its lucky to get out alive.

[VictorTarget]

My concern with tanks getting immunity to button isn't why it works, or how.

Instead, it makes me concerned that you're going to see a pair of P4s just thrown forward at an entire enemy line with the expectation that they'll break through and own everything.  They shouldn't.  Blitzkrieg is a very strong ability, we don't need to throw anything else on top of it. 

[LeoPhone]

My concern with tanks getting immunity to button isn't why it works, or how.

Instead, it makes me concerned that you're going to see a pair of P4s just thrown forward at an entire enemy line with the expectation that they'll break through and own everything.  They shouldn't.  Blitzkrieg is a very strong ability, we don't need to throw anything else on top of it. 

they might get past the atgs with less hits than normal, but they also wont hit anything themselves at long range. if u have some zooks stickeys piats rrs mines or tanks it wont work, but at least the p4 can die moving and killing some stuff with it instead of this retarded shit.

[VictorTarget]

A blitzkrieg P4 is going to overrun most standard AT, or even a sherman.  In EiR, very few people have more than a few pieces of AT on the field at a time anyway, you simply can't afford it.  Zooks won't do enough damage and will get run over.  PIATs won't hit a rolling blitz tank.  RRs won't go through it fast enough.  The best option would be mines, from what you listed.

Now go to just brits. You listed......PIATS.  A crom can't face down a P4 if the P4 is upgraded at all, anyway, and a P4 will run down a firefly.

[LeoPhone]

that will happen if u suck yes

[VERTIGGO]

I wouldnt quite go that far, it REALLY REALLY comes down to the player, simply pulling off a button does not mean tank is dead, it jsut creates an opportunity for you to bring your other AT to kill the target. However in the hands of a good brit player with a solid team, yes I would say if the tank is buttoned, its lucky to get out alive.

This sums up what I've been thinking while reading. It's easy to get out of button at long range, and the Brit's AT is better than vCOH but not much.

I dislike button and stickies equally, but without it the only thing Brits have to counter axis heavies is the Firefly, and you can't field enough of them. Piats are completely useless without stopping them completely, and the brit ATG has no armor pierce, so it is not a deterrent to Panthers and Tigers, let alone the KT, which is nearly impossible for them to penetrate.

[jackmccrack]

Do not nerf my precious button.

[Tymathee]

without button for brits against blitz, blitz would be highly OP against brits, against ami it's different because they've got normal handheld AT that tracks moving tanks.

Also, it gives blitz a weakness, tbh every high level ability should have some type of weakness, if there isn't some type of penalty of weakness to the particular ability then something isn't right.

[LeoPhone]

This sums up what I've been thinking while reading. It's easy to get out of button at long range, and the Brit's AT is better than vCOH but not much.

I dislike button and stickies equally, but without it the only thing Brits have to counter axis heavies is the Firefly, and you can't field enough of them. Piats are completely useless without stopping them completely, and the brit ATG has no armor pierce, so it is not a deterrent to Panthers and Tigers, let alone the KT, which is nearly impossible for them to penetrate.

lower the speed penalty of button, and lower it a bit more on everthing under a tiger.
button still works at close range but only for a short moment at long range.

without button for brits against blitz, blitz would be highly OP against brits, against ami it's different because they've got normal handheld AT that tracks moving tanks.

Also, it gives blitz a weakness, tbh every high level ability should have some type of weakness, if there isn't some type of penalty of weakness to the particular ability then something isn't right.

exactly. there is no counter to button so obviously its broken. blitzkrieg assault is a t3, button is the nr.1 weapon brits use.
blitzkrieg assault has counters like mines and stickies. I guess making button completely useless vs blitzkrieg assault is a bit too much. but the tanks should be able to drive out of the button easier while under the affect of blitzkrieg assault.

[RoyalHants]

lower the speed penalty of button, and lower it a bit more on everthing under a tiger.
button still works at close range but only for a short moment at long range.


exactly. there is no counter to button so obviously its broken. blitzkrieg assault is a t3, button is the nr.1 weapon brits use.
blitzkrieg assault has counters like mines and stickies. I guess making button completely useless vs blitzkrieg assault is a bit too much. but the tanks should be able to drive out of the button easier while under the affect of blitzkrieg assault.

but how else can we stop a charging panther/tiger in front of our atgs US have stickies
and cheaper inf to dive into the tracks