"The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten."

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[WriterX]

Quoting Napoleon, I thought I'd start a discussion about playing defensively in EiR. the moments when it's good to play defensively, when it's a poor idea, and how to penetrate a seemingly impossible to breach defense line.

My five cents to fire off the topic. In general, playing on the defense, especialy a static defense, is the worst possible option, unless you have a specific advantage over the opponent in cover zones and your side has well positioned pinning and hard hitting guns. The obvious downside of a static defense, is that you become a perfect target for any artillery gun, and even any german ATG/Mortar, which if I recall correctly have an overall longer range than the allied counterparts.

An additional problem of taking a static defensive position, is that most often, and the rather logical choice of unit positioning is a three line model of Infantry at the Front, medium sized guns and tanks in the second line and long range guns and artillery in the rear. In theory, this is a very logical and reasonable setup, however in the vast majority of EiR maps you will be easily outflanked if yourself or your whole team cannot insure vision over the whole front line. On the other hand, an attempt to cover a whole width of the map will mean you forces are spread thin, which I had the chance of seeing happen once. This only begs for a breakthrough, and a flanking attack. Once this happens, and if the enemy has an idea of where your heaviest guns are, what will follow is a purge of your rear, and unless there is some sort of reserve or quick move of your frontliner troops the losses might be simply too great.

Here I wish to stop before I flood the topic with my own babble and nonesense.

[Silverstone]

What if someone likes their rear purged?

[Lai]

Playing defensively usually isn't the best way if you want to win. It's better vs inferior opponents, but most anything works against inferior opposition. You can take a slight map control advantage and let them exhaust their options. The really weak will feel that the game was fair if you don't push them around too much. The slightly less weak might feel owned coz they could realize that you're holding back.

[Uunderfire]

Playing defensively usually isn't the best way if you want to win. It's better vs inferior opponents, but most anything works against inferior opposition. You can take a slight map control advantage and let them exhaust their options. The really weak will feel that the game was fair if you don't push them around too much. The slightly less weak might feel owned coz they could realize that you're holding back.

Yes, but this game is a team game, so a defensive whermacht for exemple can defend, and a blitzkrieg attack. If you do your job very well, you win.

[Masacree]

Playing defensively usually isn't the best way if you want to win. It's better vs inferior opponents, but most anything works against inferior opposition. You can take a slight map control advantage and let them exhaust their options. The really weak will feel that the game was fair if you don't push them around too much. The slightly less weak might feel owned coz they could realize that you're holding back.

Yes, but this game is a team game, so a defensive whermacht for exemple can defend, and a blitzkrieg attack. If you do your job very well, you win.

So the attacker will be double teamed as he attacks, and then the defender will be double teamed as he sits back.

Always co-ordinate with your teamate.

[CannoneerNguyen]

The best defense is a good offense.

[Lai]

Playing defensively usually isn't the best way if you want to win. It's better vs inferior opponents, but most anything works against inferior opposition. You can take a slight map control advantage and let them exhaust their options. The really weak will feel that the game was fair if you don't push them around too much. The slightly less weak might feel owned coz they could realize that you're holding back.

Yes, but this game is a team game, so a defensive whermacht for exemple can defend, and a blitzkrieg attack. If you do your job very well, you win.

Teamplay is only an extension of failing individual strength...

[gamesguy2]

Playing defensively usually isn't the best way if you want to win. It's better vs inferior opponents, but most anything works against inferior opposition. You can take a slight map control advantage and let them exhaust their options. The really weak will feel that the game was fair if you don't push them around too much. The slightly less weak might feel owned coz they could realize that you're holding back.

Yes, but this game is a team game, so a defensive whermacht for exemple can defend, and a blitzkrieg attack. If you do your job very well, you win.

So the attacker will be double teamed as he attacks, and then the defender will be double teamed as he sits back.

Always co-ordinate with your teamate.

Not true.  Certain units are too slow to be shifted, and certain units are immobile.

Instead of moving to your ally when he is attacked, consider mounting an attack on your opponent's flank with fast units.  You can usually catch some support weapons that way.  A good teammate will slowly fall back in the face of overwhelming opposition while you attack the flank.

[Uunderfire]

Oh, something else. In vCoH, if you defend a lot, you're often dead. But in EiR:R, you only have a short amount of units. So the defensive player with his bunker medic/flaks/arty can make high damage to the ennemy army while defending and win by anhiliation. So yes it's often more simple to win by surrender. But I think defending in EiR:R is simplier than in vCoH.

[Spartan_Marine88]

Invincibility lies in the Defence - Sun Tzu the art of war (a much more competent General then Napoleon)

[gamesguy2]

Invincibility lies in the Defence - Sun Tzu the art of war (a much more competent General then Napoleon)

The possibility of victory in the Attack.

You're missing the second half of that quote.

[CommanderHolt]

Not to mention that was one of the quotes in a random EiR loading screen.

[Spartan_Marine88]

Invincibility lies in the Defence - Sun Tzu the art of war (a much more competent General then Napoleon)

The possibility of victory in the Attack.

You're missing the second half of that quote.

But that weakens my point

[MonthlyMayhem]

The best offense is the best defense!

[skaffa]

Its all about adapting, everything depends on the situation you're in, choose the best option and play that perfectly, sometimes its better to defend and in other situations its best to attack.

[CommanderHolt]

Well... If we are to start quoting dead people now I guess we could use Clausewitz, who said that although the Defensive is a "negative" object (ie. Passive, preservation), it is intrinsically stronger than the offensive often due to position and other moral factors. It should be used only as so long as weakness compels you to and should be abandoned as soon as you are strong enough to pursue a "positive" object (Conquest, destruction of enemy forces).

[o4b]

Its all about adapting, everything depends on the situation you're in, choose the best option and play that perfectly, sometimes its better to defend and in other situations its best to attack.

This - to say that playing defense is the "worst possible option" really is not correct. Playing defensively allows you to wear down your opponent, while taking less casualties yourself. The most important thing to gauge is when you can then attack and take territory. Sitting in a static defense for the whole game is a poor idea, but so is relentlessly bashing yourself at a good opponent (generally). However, some companies do lend themselves well to that sort of play (LW comes to mind, perhaps Ami armor, depending on how you play it).

[fallensoldier7]

Russians beat the Germans at Stalingrad by turtling!

On a different note, playing defense, especially in a VIDEO GAME, is flipping boring.  Why sit here when I can go charge the enemy?  I get annoyed when I'm the only one trying to make a push and my teammate just wants to sit back and let his mortars do the work.  Then again the opposite also occurs when my teammate wants to stupidly rush in and gets raped while I advise him to stay back.

[Malevolence]

Playing defensively usually isn't the best way if you want to win. It's better vs inferior opponents, but most anything works against inferior opposition. You can take a slight map control advantage and let them exhaust their options. The really weak will feel that the game was fair if you don't push them around too much. The slightly less weak might feel owned coz they could realize that you're holding back.

Yes, but this game is a team game, so a defensive whermacht for exemple can defend, and a blitzkrieg attack. If you do your job very well, you win.

Teamplay is only an extension of failing individual strength...

I heard losing 1v4 is because you suck amirite.

[Spartan_Marine88]

Russians beat the Germans at Stalingrad by turtling!

And by places like Pavlov's house. Yay potshoting germans in the kitchen while you hold the bedroom and mine the stairs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlov%27s_House