[wher] Panzer IV

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[Spartan_Marine88]

i got 3 vet 2 p4s without skirts, and 1 vet 3 without skirts, and apparently theyre not strong, lol.

They get 3 shotted by piats.

piats almost always get rear armour hits, and they are AT weapons. +an ambush bonus.

[NightRain]

PIAT Ambush, you never know it is there.

RIP to all vehicles that has been ambushed by PIATs...

[Mysthalin]

i agree with AMPM i seen P4 deflect M10s and sure as fuck seen em deflect shot on riflemen! lol it looks like a fucking curve ball into the fucking sky! if anything imagine a stickie locking in into an AC with overdrive....thats how a deflection shot on riflemen looks like.

If the rifleman still dies - it's not a deflection. It's simply that the round somehow doesn't clip on the first pass and turns around mid-air to do so, since the engine rolled a hit and it will now do anything to make sure that hit happens(even go bend around a house and fly straight through 5 hedgerows like a sticky).

Remember - deflected shots have no criticals.

[Sharpshooter824]

here the worst parts about p4

shit armor
shit gun vs armor
shit mg on top
very few doc buffs that make
vet 2 range loss was huge! it allowed it to at least keep on pat with upguns and m10s
worst is how shit damage it does to light armor lol
oh hi its 12 fucking pop cap!

stugs imo with 8 pop are just so superior in the amount you field and their gun actually hits better. also mg suppresion and doc buffs make it extremely efficient for price. P4s are just hurt kittens...

How in the good earth is this a well composed and mature post? It is based COMPLETELY off of opinion with absolutely no facts. Once again, I was banned for what reason? 

[LeoPhone]

still, the sherman 76 is just better.
it beats the p4,
it has a better top gun
its main gun snipes inf just as good as p4, only the sherman fights 4 man instead of 6 man squads
p4 doesnt has to fight m10s
sherman doesnt get fucking buttoned

[Sharpshooter824]

still, the sherman 76 is just better.
it beats the p4,
it has a better top gun
its main gun snipes inf just as good as p4, only the sherman fights 4 man instead of 6 man squads
p4 doesnt has to fight m10s
sherman doesnt get fucking buttoned

Sherman faces fausts, treadbreaker, 50mm spam, cloaked shrecks, blah blah blah, I could go on and on, it doesn't matter, every unit has counters, P4 counters are just more prevelant in the current meta game, plain and simple

[Tymathee]

Leo allies specialize in crippling tanks, axis specialize in crippling infantry. Thats' how the game is made.

Sherman's also have to face much better tanks and longer ranged tanks. the G wagon, marders, 50mm ht's, panthres, tigers, king tigers, jagdpanthers, while the axis just have what, the firefly, pershing uhh thats about it.

[Ununoctium]

Leo allies specialize in crippling tanks, axis specialize in crippling infantry. Thats' how the game is made.

Sherman's also have to face much better tanks and longer ranged tanks. the G wagon, marders, 50mm ht's, panthres, tigers, king tigers, jagdpanthers, while the axis just have what, the firefly, pershing uhh thats about it.

somewhere between "axis specialize in crippling infantry" and "allies have to face much better tanks and longer range tanks" I got confused as to how allies win without arty.

[Nimitz]

Just another allied player spreading his typical crap.

[Killer344]

Just another allied player spreading his typical crap.

Wanna join Undeath and Sharp?

[Ununoctium]

Just another allied player spreading his typical crap.

Wanna join Undeath and Sharp?

Sorry Nimitz, I was making a joke.

Killer... you are reminding me of my local government lately.
I live in Toronto and while I've seen my fair share of political asshattery (and burning cop cars).

While I support your strict rule in this forum I am wondering where the fabled EiR code of human rights is.

[lionel23]

Killer is merely enforcing the rules, and comments like Nimitz add nothing constructive to the argument other than directly attacking people.  If someone can't say anything but attack someone as an 'allied/axis' fanboi, then they don't need to heard and clutter up the discussion, simple as that.

+1 to Tym's original statement in that Shermans have much greater threats to face than a P4 faces when fighting allies.  Longer range or better armored tanks against the general purpose sherman.

[Firesparks]

Killer is merely enforcing the rules, and comments like Nimitz add nothing constructive to the argument other than directly attacking people.  If someone can't say anything but attack someone as an 'allied/axis' fanboi, then they don't need to heard and clutter up the discussion, simple as that.

+1 to Tym's original statement in that Shermans have much greater threats to face than a P4 faces when fighting allies.  Longer range or better armored tanks against the general purpose sherman.

The only thing really problematic for my PZIV are the RR, 57mm, m10, and the pershing. RR and the m10 are the only two thing I think is a balance problem. The m10 is a glass cannon but really cheap to spam. The RR penetrate from the front and the men are durable and fast enough that you're going to need major back.

Personally I think the m10 can see a damage reduction against the pziv. lower it to 115 so the m10 doesn't just completely roll over the Pziv.

The 76mm sherman cost extra. Maybe the gun price is a bit cheap but I don't see anything else wrong with it.

[CrazyWR]

Its called a tank destroyer for a reason...it should win that matchup.  Its really fragile...all it takes is one piece of AT around and the m10 isn't winning that fight...

[lionel23]

Exactly, a tank destroyer > regular tank.

If the M10 is too 'cheap' then the only other option would be to make Shermans just as cheap as M10s and make the M10 cost more, but when it comes to a cheap tank, Wehr has the stug and US has the M10.  I would LOVE to field shermans in my company but considering that 2 out of 3 doctrines are heavy on infantry (and thus infantry upgrades), Infantry and airborne players tend to prefer the cheap tank that is effective and costs no MU to make good.  I would love to use Shermans again but considering to make them effective requires an upgun and the optional repair kit, I just can't afford to do that, the Hellcat sucks with frontal penetration and the ambush shot - while powerful - has no accuracy modifer like pak guns so I take only m10s for something disposable to kill enemy tanks.  Maybe if its vet requirements weren't so expensive and high I would care about keeping them alive, but really only a sherman and hellcat is worth babying.

[CrazyWR]

the vet requirements are NOT high for an m10. 25 and 50 is so ridiculously easy to obtain...

[Firesparks]

if we want to start making comparison the stug have similar price, but the m10 are far more potent as a tanker destroyer.

Yes the stug can slug it out with a sherman but you usually don't see stug actually chasing down a sherman or playing bumper car with infantry. 


I do know that M10 die easily to just about most ATW, the only problem I have is that the m10 is a bit too good at killing the PZIV. It's relatively simple to decrease the m10's damage against the PzIv.

[Mysthalin]

the vet requirements are NOT high for an m10. 25 and 50 is so ridiculously easy to obtain...

I think I proved that M10s aren't hard to vet by having 6 vet 3 ones at the same time in my armor coy. And I'm one of the most run and gun, sacrifice all vet to win players in the mod.

Yes the stug can slug it out with a sherman but you usually don't see stug actually chasing down a sherman

Actually, that happens rarely because the StuG is rather slow and can't really catch up all that easily, not because the StuG has weak DPS or whatnot.

(StuG) playing bumper car with infantry.

MG42 upgrade + skirts. Now, go get loose on the instantly suppressed infantry - StuG powerslide is just awesome.


If we sent a vanilla M10 against a vanilla P4 in a slugfest - the P4 would actually win in most cases. It's when we factor in the M10 kiting or having the T3 Armor Plating that the M10 begins to win.

[gamesguy2]

If you guys think M10 is overpowered now, you're really gonna hate it next patch.

http://www.xfire.com/video/2f817a/

[BeRzErKeR]

If you guys think M10 is overpowered now, you're really gonna hate it next patch.

http://www.xfire.com/video/2f817a/

How the f***?.....