[WM] Flak 88

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[Uunderfire]

just a question...why would u want to sacrifice ur pershing to kill an 88 anyway?

Because...THIS IS SPARTA !!!!

[Rocksitter]

Ostwind 1 36 had been converted from the Pz iv plus 7 new ones made so 43 the Ostwind 2 was never produced...

 while only 20 Pershing ever seen combat action..

[Uunderfire]

Ostwind 1 36 had been converted from the Pz iv plus 7 new ones made so 43 the Ostwind 2 was never produced...

 while only 20 Pershing ever seen combat action..

Lots of USA tanks project were designed for the WWII but in fact they were used during Korea war

[TheLastArmada]

whoops looks like i got us off topic,

Back to it, why would you use a tank to try and take out an atg platform ??
once youve found the 88's position arty is effective or flanking it  ??

[Calstifer]

Still, people are saying 'why would you charge a pershing'. Simpily eneough, if you have some MG's and Anti Inf Infintry guarding your 88 (like any sane player) then inf alone cannot break through. Only a combination of tanks and infintry (Air support if possible) can realy repell a well placed 88.

[DarkSoldierX]

or you can just be smart and motar it.... or use a howee that works too they are very powerful.

[Jazzhead]

Still, people are saying 'why would you charge a pershing'. Simpily eneough, if you have some MG's and Anti Inf Infintry guarding your 88 (like any sane player) then inf alone cannot break through. Only a combination of tanks and infintry (Air support if possible) can realy repell a well placed 88.

Just arty it to death. Every other allied player has some form of arty. Why waste a tank when you can sit back and have tea....or masturbate to your vet3 calli

But actually, i really haven't seen 88s be that big of a problem for the allies. It's not like it poses a constant threat of instagibbing all your troops like a howie or something

[Firesparks]

or you can just be smart and motar it.... or use a howee that works too they are very powerful.

Still, people are saying 'why would you charge a pershing'. Simpily eneough, if you have some MG's and Anti Inf Infintry guarding your 88 (like any sane player) then inf alone cannot break through. Only a combination of tanks and infintry (Air support if possible) can realy repell a well placed 88.

Just arty it to death. Every other allied player has some form of arty. Why waste a tank when you can sit back and have tea....or masturbate to your vet3 calli

But actually, i really haven't seen 88s be that big of a problem for the allies. It's not like it poses a constant threat of instagibbing all your troops like a howie or something

Only the RCA and the infantry have their super howie. As a Royal Engineer player my option is to either use the 2inch (lol), the weak 25 pdr, or rush in with some type of Churchill.

Even with a Churchill it is suicidal to attack directly head on. 2inch is a joke, and 25 pdr is still lack luster as well.

[Jazzhead]

or you can just be smart and motar it.... or use a howee that works too they are very powerful.

Still, people are saying 'why would you charge a pershing'. Simpily eneough, if you have some MG's and Anti Inf Infintry guarding your 88 (like any sane player) then inf alone cannot break through. Only a combination of tanks and infintry (Air support if possible) can realy repell a well placed 88.

Just arty it to death. Every other allied player has some form of arty. Why waste a tank when you can sit back and have tea....or masturbate to your vet3 calli

But actually, i really haven't seen 88s be that big of a problem for the allies. It's not like it poses a constant threat of instagibbing all your troops like a howie or something

Only the RCA and the infantry have their super howie. As a Royal Engineer player my option is to either use the 2inch (lol), the weak 25 pdr, or rush in with some type of Churchill.

Even with a Churchill it is suicidal to attack directly head on. 2inch is a joke, and 25 pdr is still lack luster as well.

But when 3 (very common) doctrines have on map arty, you're bound to have a teammate with a piece or two

[Rocksitter]

  Since many people are spamming howis I know you will have a teammate with arty ..

 The 88 is the best tank killer in game here is a hint don't use tanks and if you have to, bring 3 or more with some infantry support as well....

  Certain builds are weak against arty that's when you have to depend on your team to help..

 I have seen games with the 88 doing nothing and others that it really does well so its not a end all ,there are many different counters..

[Firesparks]

or you can just be smart and motar it.... or use a howee that works too they are very powerful.

Still, people are saying 'why would you charge a pershing'. Simpily eneough, if you have some MG's and Anti Inf Infintry guarding your 88 (like any sane player) then inf alone cannot break through. Only a combination of tanks and infintry (Air support if possible) can realy repell a well placed 88.

Just arty it to death. Every other allied player has some form of arty. Why waste a tank when you can sit back and have tea....or masturbate to your vet3 calli

But actually, i really haven't seen 88s be that big of a problem for the allies. It's not like it poses a constant threat of instagibbing all your troops like a howie or something

Only the RCA and the infantry have their super howie. As a Royal Engineer player my option is to either use the 2inch (lol), the weak 25 pdr, or rush in with some type of Churchill.

Even with a Churchill it is suicidal to attack directly head on. 2inch is a joke, and 25 pdr is still lack luster as well.

But when 3 (very common) doctrines have on map arty, you're bound to have a teammate with a piece or two

  Since many people are spamming howis I know you will have a teammate with arty ..

 The 88 is the best tank killer in game here is a hint don't use tanks and if you have to, bring 3 or more with some infantry support as well....

  Certain builds are weak against arty that's when you have to depend on your team to help..

 I have seen games with the 88 doing nothing and others that it really does well so its not a end all ,there are many different counters..

you can't just say "lol tough luck" if I just happen to have a team that's not RCA or infantry.
Personally I just think the range is a bit too insane at 100m. On most 2v2 map you can set up in the middle and cover enough of the map to have superiority.
(the problem might be also projectID and his officer blob.)

[NightRain]

89% of the 88s used don't have any proper scouting for them. Thus 88s rarely fire out from their max range due to this. Which is somewhat sad. 88m is good as long as it has someone spotting for it and 89% of the cases they don't have because:

It is always built in the front when it should be built in the back.

All Recon vehicles get one shotted by ATGs.

Those two are the major reasons why 88s fail as far as I know. Only Omniscience players have good chance of using 88s to their major potential. Mysthalin did very good for spotting his 88 with volks.

[Uunderfire]

  Since many people are spamming howis I know you will have a teammate with arty ..

 The 88 is the best tank killer in game here is a hint don't use tanks and if you have to, bring 3 or more with some infantry support as well....

  Certain builds are weak against arty that's when you have to depend on your team to help..

 I have seen games with the 88 doing nothing and others that it really does well so its not a end all ,there are many different counters..

And if the defensive player has the T3 ability "artillery experts" which allows him to fire shells with his flak ?

[Mysthalin]

Yet again - it's not about the 88 being impossible to beat or anything of the like.

It's about the SHERMAN being stronger against the 88 than the Pershing due to a stupid damage modifier.

[Uunderfire]

Yet again - it's not about the 88 being impossible to beat or anything of the like.

It's about the SHERMAN being stronger against the 88 than the Pershing due to a stupid damage modifier.

Ok. And about the canon for the sherman,it's a 76 mm and 90 mm for the pershing, no ? So yes it seems a bit absurd to have a tank with a bigger canon which make less damages...

[Mysthalin]

It's not about the real life specifics of the two guns - it's about the general balance between the two units. The Sherman is less expensive than the pershing in every single way - popcap, manpower, muni - etc, and they fullfill roughly the same role. A pershing is basically a bigger sherman - just like a Tiger is a bigger Panzer IV. And the Tiger doesn't have silly 0.45 damage modifiers versus 17 pdr emplacements when compared with the Panzer IV.

[Hicks58]

It's not about the real life specifics of the two guns - it's about the general balance between the two units. The Sherman is less expensive than the pershing in every single way - popcap, manpower, muni - etc, and they fullfill roughly the same role. A pershing is basically a bigger sherman - just like a Tiger is a bigger Panzer IV. And the Tiger doesn't have silly 0.45 damage modifiers versus 17 pdr emplacements when compared with the Panzer IV.

17 pdr's are just silly at the moment anyhow unfortunately.

That's actually a good point... When will emplacements get some lovin'? As it stands British emplacements are very pants to use in the EiRR environment due to short range and relative fragility. Throw in the long build time (In comparison to how long it would take to waste the crew mid build) as well as lack of mobility (For all apart from the 17 pdr) and they just aren't worth the costs.

Thought i'd throw that in there. :p

[Mysthalin]

Emplacements just.. don't fit in the EIRR environment as they are. Huge targets, super fragile, immobile and flat out shit. Useless.


What I think they need is the ability to be redeployed again.. Otherwise - why bother buying them when regular units can do the job just as well, on top of being able to move around?

[Uunderfire]

Emplacements just.. don't fit in the EIRR environment as they are. Huge targets, super fragile, immobile and flat out shit. Useless.


What I think they need is the ability to be redeployed again.. Otherwise - why bother buying them when regular units can do the job just as well, on top of being able to move around?

And how about having the same ability as royal engineers have ? I mean the ability for the tanks, when they can trench. You could use it on the movables 17 pdr, and they would be more resistant. After, you just use the ability again to untrench.

[Hicks58]

The idea of an emplacement is a high quality weapon in a fixed position that is resistant to enemy fire...

Just look at an MG Bunker. It can take a royal pounding and a half, has a good suppressing MG... But if you wanted, you could just avoid the thing.

Current British emplacements have neither mobility, nor quality.

Sure, HVAP'ing a Panther to death with a 17 pdr by use of a mere 3-4 rounds seems fun on the rare occasion that you do it... But your Fireflies, 6 Pdr's and Sappers will be doing the real leg work.