Churchill AVRE

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[fallensoldier7]

You can use an AVRE to change a battle withoput even using an AVRE. I've driven up to infantry or vetted paks so many times just turned right at them(so there is no turret traverse) and the person backs off or retreats because of the threat of instant annihilation. Not only that but between vet and hobarts funnies the recharge is so low and the range is good. Hitting moving units is an art but killing an HMG in a house is simple enough.

If the axis was scouting properly the churchill would have been shot as it was driving up to the pak. If the enemy simply back away it's a lose for the brit because the AVRE is most likely hurting and the axis simply lost a position. You can say that's enough, but it is really worth investing 410mp 240fuel just for that?

He was talking about using it during a battle to scare away a pak, not charging in by itself.

AVRE is horrid vs pinned units, it does no damage against them.

I don't think very many people know that.

[Spartan_Marine88]

A minute is a pretty short time frame considering what it can do in a single shot. decrew a Flak. a Pak. A house. kill a squad. And they are rarely in harms way if you use them correctly. furthermore for 8 population having a 900hp AT sponge on the field is a good bargain. Furthermore should you have hull down you increase the effectiveness of anyone nearby

I can't tell you how many times i have used a AVRE on cooldown to lure a panther or p4 into coming into safe range of my Firefly

[Firesparks]

A minute is a pretty short time frame considering what it can do in a single shot. decrew a Flak. a Pak. A house. kill a squad. And they are rarely in harms way if you use them correctly. furthermore for 8 population having a 900hp AT sponge on the field is a good bargain. Furthermore should you have hull down you increase the effectiveness of anyone nearby

it's still only possible if you brought hobart funnies AND have a vet 3 avre. Considering that there's only 2 vet3 AVRE in existence it's a moot point. It's purely theory crafting. It's pretty bad if I need vet3 on the unit for it to not suck. You're acting like I can just pop a vet3 AVRE out of thin air.

I can't tell you how many times i have used a AVRE on cooldown to lure a panther or p4 into coming into safe range of my Firefly

so it's a 410 mp 240 f bait?

He was talking about using it during a battle to scare away a pak, not charging in by itself.

My point is that to actually scare away a pak (or anything) I would have to get in firing range, which mean I would have to let my churchill get shot at.

[LeoPhone]

A minute is a pretty short time frame considering what it can do in a single shot. decrew a Flak. a Pak. A house. kill a squad. And they are rarely in harms way if you use them correctly. furthermore for 8 population having a 900hp AT sponge on the field is a good bargain. Furthermore should you have hull down you increase the effectiveness of anyone nearby

it has 700 hp. only croc has 900.

and why take an AVRE for bait if you can get a CCT for much less?
the cct can even take out pinned infantry while the avre cant. (crush ftl)

[fallensoldier7]

He was talking about using it during a battle to scare away a pak, not charging in by itself.

My point is that to actually scare away a pak (or anything) I would have to get in firing range, which mean I would have to let my churchill get shot at.

Er.. why would your opponents aim for your AVRE when there are far more potent units attacking them?  Like a Cromwell or British infantry?

[Jazzhead]

A minute is a pretty short time frame considering what it can do in a single shot. decrew a Flak. a Pak. A house. kill a squad. And they are rarely in harms way if you use them correctly. furthermore for 8 population having a 900hp AT sponge on the field is a good bargain. Furthermore should you have hull down you increase the effectiveness of anyone nearby

it has 700 hp. only croc has 900.

and why take an AVRE for bait if you can get a CCT for much less?
the cct can even take out pinned infantry while the avre cant. (crush ftl)

Wouldn't the AVRE be more durable b/c it has churchill armor?

[Firesparks]

He was talking about using it during a battle to scare away a pak, not charging in by itself.

My point is that to actually scare away a pak (or anything) I would have to get in firing range, which mean I would have to let my churchill get shot at.

Er.. why would your opponents aim for your AVRE when there are far more potent units attacking them?  Like a Cromwell or British infantry?

If the AVRE is as scary and potent as brn4meplz claiming it to be then naturally the axis player is going to aiming for the it first. That's the point of his whole argument isn't it? Now you're saying that the british Tommy or even the cromwell are more potent than a AVRE?

Wouldn't the AVRE be more durable b/c it has churchill armor?

Most axis weapon still cleaves through churchill armor. The Pak's ambush bonus negate any armor and most axis weapon have at least ~50% chance against it. The churchill is also the slowest speed next to the King Tiger. It's base hp of 700 is also somewhat low for a meatshield.

A minute is a pretty short time frame considering what it can do in a single shot. decrew a Flak. a Pak. A house. kill a squad. And they are rarely in harms way if you use them correctly. furthermore for 8 population having a 900hp AT sponge on the field is a good bargain. Furthermore should you have hull down you increase the effectiveness of anyone nearby

First of all, the avre, mk 4 and mk 6 only have 700 hp, even with hobart's funnies it's still 805.
Secondly it's not 100% foolproof against any of the example you listed. I've had a garrisoned mg42 escape from my avre.

I'm not going to argue against the effectiveness of the hulldown, but I can just take the mk4 if I'm just going to use the more expensive AVRE as a meatshield.

[brn4meplz]

I do not have a single game where either of my AVRE's does not kill more then it's cost. NOT A SINGLE GAME. They routinely kill multiple support weapons(obviously munitions cost must be calculated instead of fuel as an AVRE will barely/rarely kill a fuel unit) but I routinely kill 2 or more Paks, HMG's or Mortars. Sniper hunting is also a snap with an AVRE and a good investment of shots. You will rarely find my AVRE's in fields. I pretty much keep them limited to Urban areas or shot blockers. Either way I look at it, I rarely take multiple Pak shots, kill more then my cost and only lose them to panthers or massed P4's.

All things considered they are a good investment in my company. If i want to i could vet 3 an AVRE in 5 or less games most likely(they regularly achieve 20+ kills) but I have no compunction losing them and even though the cooldown reduction with vet is nice I'd rather not have the stigma of trying to retain the vet over losing the tank. Much the same as if losing a Vet 3 FF or command tank(happened recently) will bring about a win I'd gladly make the sacrifice.

[3rdCondor]

Until we see priests, this POS is the baddest arty the brits have on the field atm.

[Firesparks]

I do not have a single game where either of my AVRE's does not kill more then it's cost. NOT A SINGLE GAME. They routinely kill multiple support weapons(obviously munitions cost must be calculated instead of fuel as an AVRE will barely/rarely kill a fuel unit) but I routinely kill 2 or more Paks, HMG's or Mortars. Sniper hunting is also a snap with an AVRE and a good investment of shots. You will rarely find my AVRE's in fields. I pretty much keep them limited to Urban areas or shot blockers. Either way I look at it, I rarely take multiple Pak shots, kill more then my cost and only lose them to panthers or massed P4's.

All things considered they are a good investment in my company. If i want to i could vet 3 an AVRE in 5 or less games most likely(they regularly achieve 20+ kills) but I have no compunction losing them and even though the cooldown reduction with vet is nice I'd rather not have the stigma of trying to retain the vet over losing the tank. Much the same as if losing a Vet 3 FF or command tank(happened recently) will bring about a win I'd gladly make the sacrifice.

It's a specialized tank that excel in certain situation. I'm not saying it's worthless but what you are describing is not strength, it's its constraint. By comparison the normal tanks still retain the ability to kill vehicle and roaming infantry and attack static defense. It serve a very specialized role in the RE and I'm saying that it's over priced as it is right now.

You keep going on about how awesome the AVRE is with vet, but I'm saying it's mostly a moot point. Veterancy are nice (temporary) bonus for a unit. It's there because every unit has veterancy and shouldn't be the deciding factor in regard to buying a unit.  

[TheLastArmada]

It's a specialized tank that excel in certain situation. I'm not saying it's worthless but what you are describing is not strength, it's its constraint. By comparison the normal tanks still retain the ability to kill vehicle and roaming infantry and attack static defense. It serve a very specialized role in the RE and I'm saying that it's over priced as it is right now.

You keep going on about how awesome the AVRE is with vet, but I'm saying it's mostly a moot point. Veterancy are nice (temporary) bonus for a unit. It's there because every unit has veterancy and shouldn't be the deciding factor in regard to buying a unit.  

+1

[rifle87654]

once you miss it's a dead weight for over 2 minute while the ability recharge. Hobart's funnies cuts down the reload time but it's still a long wait.

Tell the devs to make that hull mg below better.
Accu, dmg, surpress...
Make it like gren lmg42.

[TheLastArmada]

once you miss it's a dead weight for over 2 minute while the ability recharge. Hobart's funnies cuts down the reload time but it's still a long wait.

Tell the devs to make that hull mg below better.
Accu, dmg, surpress...
Make it like gren lmg42.

Thats actually not a bad idea...
Seeing as supressed inf take next to no damage from a Petard round
either try to gib the squads with the mortar or hope to supress with the Hull mg

Would make the AVRE comparable to a Super 1 shot StuH with better armor