Spartan_Marine88
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« Reply #40 on: July 19, 2010, 09:59:53 am » |
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If you guys don't separate germans from nazis I'll lock the tread, it's just damn stupid to generalize a whole country like that.
Sorry if i forgot to separate myself never meant it myself. It does go without saying that Germany then is not Germany now Actually, the Pope officially supported Hitler - he had even signed a concordate with Germany. Vatican was promised freedom, whereas Hitler got the political support to be able to pressure catholics under his regime - both of them won some.
The SS did indeed imprison quite a few religious types - but those were mostly "BibbelForschers" - a sect that refused to serve in the army due to their aparent dislike for violence(They had other specifics about their religion - such as having multiple wives). Monks, priests and other people of that extent were mostly just left alone.
And people keep mentioning the Jews - let's not forget the Gypsies didn't exactly have a good time in Nazi Germany either. It's fairly sad the world actually forgets about one nation, while mourning heavily over another when the nation that's being mourned over likely were better off in Nazi Germany than the forgotten one was.
I.. think that made sense, anyway.
War is never pretty, and nobody is always 100 percent noble and virtuous in it. I can guarantee you there were american soldiers raping german women, and I can guarantee there were german soldiers that would bring a part of their rations to starving french children. You can't just generalise it "good guys, bad guys". Heck - even the SS wasn't just full of psychotic weirdos. Quite a few SS troops were drafted from the occupied states, and they did anything they could to help the lives of those in the concentration camps(read Forest of Gods, if you find it in English, for an autobiographic take of one writer that survived a concentration lagger - good read).
agreed, although the Vatican hasn't changed much imho it was only last week that they wrote down in thier big book of laws that "Female Ordained Priests are as bad as Pedophiles" |
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Yes that's me, the special snowflake.
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AmPM
Community Mapper
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« Reply #41 on: July 19, 2010, 10:21:29 am » |
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Read about the events surrounding Monte Cassino if you want to see some fine examples of nobility from the FJ and Heer units in the area.
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Unkn0wn
No longer retired
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« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2010, 10:23:58 am » |
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german cities were bombed as response to holocaust and other masacres started by germans (I read that in books), bombing german cities were not worth the civilian death, that made meh, who did that first? Who was breaking all unwritten and all human rights, becasue "we are better then them" while they acted like animals, well not all but most. Never an excuse to drop yourself to the same level as your opponent, even in the face of great adversity the allied nations should have held on to their principles as proof that they were in fact above monstrosities like the ones committed by the axis. Unfortunately incidents such as the bombing of Dresden has shown us that war is ugly and mankind cruel, no matter how righteous its cause. |
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« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 10:26:17 am by Unkn0wn »
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| Ununoctium
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« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2010, 10:24:58 am » |
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agreed, although the Vatican hasn't changed much imho it was only last week that they wrote down in thier big book of laws that "Female Ordained Priests are as bad as Pedophiles"
don't you mean homo pedophiles are now punishable like female ordained priests |
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 My tigers get penetrated by everything. Its really really frustrating.
Your tiger is a whore |
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| Spartan_Marine88
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« Reply #44 on: July 19, 2010, 10:26:46 am » |
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don't you mean homo pedophiles are now punishable like female ordained priests
Actually Female priests and the Priest who ordained them are excommunicated, while a priest child molester is merely defrocked and put back into society. |
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Unkn0wn
No longer retired
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« Reply #45 on: July 19, 2010, 10:28:17 am » |
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Who cares about the church anyway.
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AmPM
Community Mapper
Posts: 7978
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« Reply #46 on: July 19, 2010, 10:30:14 am » |
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german cities were bombed as response to holocaust and other masacres started by germans (I read that in books), bombing german cities were not worth the civilian death, that made meh, who did that first? Who was breaking all unwritten and all human rights, becasue "we are better then them" while they acted like animals, well not all but most.
Most Germans didn't do anything, most German soldiers performed just like a soldier of any other nation. They didn't even convict all the SS Divisions of war crimes, just a couple. There is a difference between serving in your nations military and being a Nazi. |
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| Spartan_Marine88
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« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2010, 10:37:53 am » |
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Most Germans didn't do anything, most German soldiers performed just like a soldier of any other nation. They didn't even convict all the SS Divisions of war crimes, just a couple. There is a difference between serving in your nations military and being a Nazi.
War crimes do not necessarily mean Holocaust related crimes. I have been trying to avoid that subject myself (as it always leads to one thing. There just isn't enough time or money to investigate everyone who claimed they didn't know) I am more going on about things against the Geneva convention |
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| Sach
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« Reply #48 on: July 19, 2010, 10:38:05 am » |
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The British bombed German cities as a retailiation for the bombing of London and because of a mistaked belief that it could bring the country to its knees through morale. Its no coincidence that the only senior British officer not to be knighted was 'Bomber' Harris.
The Americans just continued where the British led. It had nothing to do with the holocaust or Nazism.
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Sach Wins!  Would people please stop killing my AVREs. Not cool.
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AmPM
Community Mapper
Posts: 7978
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« Reply #49 on: July 19, 2010, 10:42:15 am » |
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War crimes do not necessarily mean Holocaust related crimes. I have been trying to avoid that subject myself (as it always leads to one thing. There just isn't enough time or money to investigate everyone who claimed they didn't know) I am more going on about things against the Geneva convention
War crimes are things against the Geneva Convention. Thats basically the requirement for it to be a war crime. |
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| Spartan_Marine88
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« Reply #50 on: July 19, 2010, 10:49:48 am » |
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War crimes are things against the Geneva Convention. Thats basically the requirement for it to be a war crime.
True but when the average person thinks about the War crimes trials they instinctively think about the Holocaust |
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| Sach
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« Reply #51 on: July 19, 2010, 10:50:43 am » |
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wierdly enough when someone says 'war crimes trial' I think of Tony Blair.
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Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
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« Reply #52 on: July 19, 2010, 11:00:24 am » |
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There is a difference between serving in your nations military and being a Nazi. And there's also a difference between being a true Nazi and just within the Nazi party. Case in point - Oscar Schindler. |
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| CubanLynx
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« Reply #53 on: July 19, 2010, 11:03:11 am » |
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Going back to the last page the Church did not support Hitler. The cheif Rabbi of Rome during the war praised the Pope for what he did to combat nazism and save Jews. Just becuase the Pope didn't declare open war on the Nazis doesn't mean he wasn't against them. They did the smart thing by letting themselves stay in Germany so that they could help people.
Sorry I just get annoyed with everyone just listening to the Catholic bashing media and taking it in as Gospel truth.
Oh and the Church doesn't make new laws they have always been there since the beginning.
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| BigDick
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« Reply #54 on: July 19, 2010, 11:12:58 am » |
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since what germans did on their land is even worse.
actually all the polakos serving in the SS were one of the most feared by polski jews and russians many ss members working in concentration camps were polaken you should know that  |
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« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 11:18:17 am by BigDick »
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| Spartan_Marine88
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« Reply #55 on: July 19, 2010, 11:17:43 am » |
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Oh and the Church doesn't make new laws they have always been there since the beginning.
Honestly not true, there have been many changes to the laws. And while this law/ruling is mainly about pedophiles they squeeze in the women ruling into the same couple of lines. http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-07-15-abuse-church-regulations_N.htmAlso let me remind you this comes not to long after Belgium got fed up with the Vatican protecting their pedophiles and started raiding churches to find evidence |
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| CubanLynx
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« Reply #56 on: July 19, 2010, 12:00:15 pm » |
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I was talking about major long standing rules which affect the faith itself such as women priests. It's not like the Pope was having tea last week and suddenly went oh snap we've got nothing stopping women being preists. The major doctrinal rules have been there, even if in their undeveloped form, since the beginning.
Yes the Church does change disciplinary procedures but you cannot compare that with fundamental rules too the religion itself and then claim its inconsistent or always making up random rules.
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Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
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« Reply #57 on: July 19, 2010, 12:20:50 pm » |
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Ok, how is women not being allowed to be priests fundamental to christianity? How does them spreading the word of god exactly counteract Christ's teaching?
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| CubanLynx
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« Reply #58 on: July 19, 2010, 01:05:31 pm » |
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Its fundamental because women since the beginning were never allowed to be priests. Even when there were positions to be filled men were always chosen. This is not becuase the leaders were male chauvanist, they were in fact the opposite, its because they relalised men and women are different and have different roles to fufil.
i.e. Having women priest would change the very nature of a key component in the religion.
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« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 01:07:27 pm by CubanLynx »
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Killer344
The Inquisitor
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« Reply #59 on: July 19, 2010, 01:07:22 pm » |
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Trying to defend the Church nowadays is pointless; you could try to alienate faith from it though, which would make sense.
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If I get shot and it's a gay medic fixing me up, he's not gonna be fondling my balls while he does it. You can't patch a chest wound and suck a cock at the same time.
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