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Author Topic: [PE] Luftwaffe  (Read 19117 times)
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Groundfire Offline
EIRR community manager
EIR Veteran
Posts: 8511



« Reply #40 on: July 19, 2010, 01:07:55 pm »

Alright, so take it up with bob then.

Im not the one that needs to be convinced.
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Heartmann Offline
Officer of Kindness
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Posts: 1776



« Reply #41 on: July 19, 2010, 01:14:28 pm »

I disagree. Logistics could use a slight buff, but spotting teams is definitely fine. I don't like the T4 at all, it removes most penalties and doesn't really suck but it's just plain odd.
+1
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CrazyWR Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3616


« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2010, 02:22:28 pm »

Alright, so take it up with bob then.

Im not the one that needs to be convinced.

bob and gamesguy have a serious failure when it comes to admitting they might be wrong.
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AmPM Offline
Community Mapper
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Posts: 7978



« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2010, 02:27:13 pm »

Gamesguy is especially bad, since he is obviously the finest EIR player ever and a god among men.  Grin
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Chubba Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 62


« Reply #44 on: July 19, 2010, 10:04:00 pm »

Quote
All that bitching about OP airborne, and ranger spam, super armor M10s, Infantry doctrine in general, Lightning war easy mode, all that is from multiple doctrines overbuffing 1-2 particular units, and EVERYONE bitches about it.

But those can be fixed. Simply reduce the health buff from easy company, tweak asymmetric warfare so it isn't as powerful (or introduce a new idea) and I don't remember super armour m10's personally but even if they are, simply reduce the health buff which makes them 'super'.

Everyone is bitching about it because it deserves to be bitched about. But when someone points out your kettle is whistling and that the whistling is irritating them, you then don't get into your car, slam it into the kettle and declare 'From now on, this household will only accept water boiled from a saucepan! Kettles will be shot on sight.'

Just because a whole load of really powerful shit managed to sneak into airbourne, the solution should be to simply tweak or modify the existing abilities so as to make them more reasonable, not to declare war on the 'overbuffing of 1-2 particular units'.

EDIT - Analogy edited from very shitty to slightly less shitty.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 08:57:14 am by Chubba » Logged
CrazyWR Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3616


« Reply #45 on: July 19, 2010, 11:46:56 pm »

thank for coming up with the analogy I couldn't quite express properly.
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Groundfire Offline
EIRR community manager
EIR Veteran
Posts: 8511



« Reply #46 on: July 20, 2010, 08:47:36 am »

Wait, did you just say im the kettle calling the pot black or something?
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Chubba Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 62


« Reply #47 on: July 20, 2010, 08:54:43 am »

Quote
Wait, did you just say im the kettle calling the pot black or something?

Ignore the terrible analogy, just read the rest of it.
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shockcoil Offline
griefer & spammer
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1566



« Reply #48 on: July 20, 2010, 09:07:19 am »

thank for coming up with the analogy I couldn't quite express properly.
Ignore the terrible analogy, just read the rest of it.
lol

Anyway the new doctrine direction kinda fails specifically because companies need to be focused. Even without doctrines, the most successfull companies are ones that are really good at one thing whether that be holding territory, blitzing or what have you. Buffing a little bit of everything won't change that. In fact if the desired objective of making people use more unit types is achieved, you'll just find people with the same, boring and less effective companies.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 12:19:41 pm by shockcoil » Logged

Jodomar Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 734


« Reply #49 on: July 20, 2010, 10:09:07 am »

This is why I kind of stoped playing EIR. Luft was a huge disappointment for me. That doctrine makes my head spin around in circle untill it wants to explode from the utter fail it brings to my beloved luftwaffe. I like my companies to be good at specific things. I like having options, but if the direction of EIR is to be like Luft is now, I will not play anymore. Please change luft to Elite's original doctrine plan and then tweak the other doctrines to be more in line with each other as far as overall power is concerned. Please do not make this mod utter donkey doo doo by changing the doctrines to reflect the current Luftwaffe, and please revert back to using Elite's model for Luftwaffe. 
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CrazyWR Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3616


« Reply #50 on: July 20, 2010, 11:54:56 am »

seconded
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Killer344 Offline
The Inquisitor
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Posts: 6904



« Reply #51 on: July 20, 2010, 05:35:42 pm »

Rofl, he says change it as if it was a 10 minutes task.
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Groundfire Offline
EIRR community manager
EIR Veteran
Posts: 8511



« Reply #52 on: July 20, 2010, 05:44:17 pm »

Can we get a copy of Elitegren's Doctrine work up here so we can compare?
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CrazyWR Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3616


« Reply #53 on: July 20, 2010, 08:38:23 pm »

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DarkSoldierX Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3015



« Reply #54 on: July 20, 2010, 08:40:23 pm »

Wrong picture CrazyWR.
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two words
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Looks who's butthurt
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CrazyWR Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3616


« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2010, 08:40:35 pm »

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DarkSoldierX Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3015



« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2010, 08:43:45 pm »

Its not crazy OP like american doctrines but I do think that would make my day if that was how it was implemented.

Like I said in the other thread, I would go ambush T3 and superior planing T3
« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 08:45:39 pm by DarkSoldierX » Logged
Jodomar Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 734


« Reply #57 on: July 20, 2010, 09:49:28 pm »

I know a lot of hard work and time has been spent into the luftwaffe doctrine, along with EIR itself. I know that everyone here greatly appreciates what you guys are doing to give us basically another game for free. I'm just a concerned fan who was let down by the current luftwaffe doctrine and I would hate to not have fun anymore with the mod i love to play; due to doctrines that don't make anysense/ not fun to play anymore. Again we all know a fix for the current luftwaffe would take alot of time and effort to pull off. I can't thank you guys enough for the enjoyable experiences that you have supplied me thus far. I don't mean to take away from your hard work I just don't like where the doctrines are going and I just want to express my concern. I know I bitch a lot so I figured that I would put this out there so you guys know that I appreciate your work and so does everyone else.
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Chubba Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 62


« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2010, 09:59:37 pm »

That doctrine still needs a little tweaking and it's not perfect, but at least Marksmen Training makes more sense than Planned Offensive and would promote PanzerGrenadiers in a Luftwafte Army.

As a note, I believe they got rid of the faster firing and cooldown because it resulted in a loss of original damage output since the faster firing meant they could no longer recloak.
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Groundfire Offline
EIRR community manager
EIR Veteran
Posts: 8511



« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2010, 10:03:30 pm »

Its not crazy OP like american doctrines but I do think that would make my day if that was how it was implemented.

Like I said in the other thread, I would go ambush T3 and superior planing T3

That is like the one thing that bob's Luftwaffe lacks, the incentive to choose 2 T3s over a T4.

I love Gren's "Smokin Run" and the fact he has the 88 as a T1 not a T3

Other than that, and ive stared at these doctrine sheets for at least 15 minutes, Bob's doctrine is not only more powerful, doctrine for doctrine, but more fun.

I fuckin love Weapons training and Infariot-Schreinwerfer. How useful and creative. (especially Infariot)

Weapons training fits super well in the Ambush tree. It's not that situational. I decrew half a dozen ATGs every game with my Incendiary mortar Halftracks; or the same amount of decrewed ATGs my team blow up over picking them up? Now you have a reason to use those luftwaffe squads.

And also, especially when you want to compare "superior planning" to "marksman training". The underdog trees of Luft.

You gotta be kidding me, and you guys want the latter, who would rly take marksmantraining over what Bob gave us? And even more-so, Bob lumped in what was in Gren's T3 "Ammunition supply" with his own "Superior Planning" giving you another T3 full of abilities to pick from, (albiet Improved Logistics could use a small buff) Giving you more bang for your buck.

I see the theme in of "Planned Offensive", clear as day, a T4 that improves combat efficiency and promotes aggressiveness, with all the removing of acc. nerfs and extra sight, no slow dmg reduction.

Yeah its not themed in the sense of Monte Casino and Fortress Europe are, but Planned offensive does not have doctrinal units to revolve around, therefore it makes sense that this tree be dedicated to, not Fallschirm camping, not 88s and emplacements and shit, but the general combat efficiency and aggressiveness of the PE army.

I see no more synergy in Gren's workup then I do in Bob's.

Gren's workup isnt more focused. Many of the doctrine abilities are the same between the two write-ups.

Id also like to point out that some of the math in Gren's write up isnt thought through well enough. He wants to give 25% less recieved acc. and heroic armor to 88/verling crews. You know what are your chances of hitting an 88 crew after that T4 is applied? Well for most small arms its around 63%, which means you will never again be able to beat an 88 crew off its gun in a reasonable amount of time.

Stuff like this, Bob takes into account and he gave the 88 an extra 25% HP. Similar effect but not increasing the toughness of the crew by such a drastic degree.

And I sure as shit know that if Gren's Luft was implemented, we'd hear non-stop crying over "marksman training" cause it's just boring and doesn't warrant being a T4. It would literally be the "Battle-Hardened" of Luftwaffe

Bunch of Hot-air, this thread is...
Just alot of theory crafting and fond nostalgia of past days when Luft was capable of beating on allied infantry, with no ambush, as if the riflemen were a couple of puppies in a potato sac
« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 10:33:08 pm by Groundfire » Logged
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