[us] airborne doctrine too powerful.

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[Groundfire]

Sadly for PE adding ISTs if you don't get the doctrine buffs from SE usually results in lack of other vital support units and upgrades =( It's overpriced for the most part.

I remember back when smokaz was rollin, he always had a G43 slow squad in close support to an IST.

Any AB squad that was caught by the slow would get crushed.

With the popularity of 50mms now adays that cost next to no fuel, and only a heafty amount of munitions, I think you could quite easily cover all your bases with those 3 units and a Mortar HT for flaming ATGs.

[Grundwaffe]

Well, dont like the fact how it's penetrating tiger or jagd.. But the Airborne needs something right

[Tymathee]

Sadly for PE adding ISTs if you don't get the doctrine buffs from SE usually results in lack of other vital support units and upgrades =( It's overpriced for the most part.

G43's + G43's? Or the other weapon that falls have, or Focus fire and then you've got that aura thing. I had a tough time with my aB company against your luft company so i dont think u have any problems

[AmPM]

That's because I have almost no armored vehicles =p

[Firesparks]

okay but still, you dont fight airborne with tanks, just because u can do that to zooks doesn't mean u can do it to AB. they're horribly weak vs any type of infantry AI, if u have an hmg, kch, mp40 volks, even regular volks or grens, they can tear AB to pieces.

and schrecks kill guns better than rr's

300 health for both
schreck hits = 3
RR hits = 5

both would take 3 volleys total to kill a gun, which is more cost efficient, the 120 mu schreck or the 2x 180 mu RR's? i'll take the schreck.

I fear schreck storms over any type of infantry AT in the game, because of the power of the schreck and the cloak of the stormies. RR's are not as powerful as you try to make them, just learn to counter them ffs and stop trying to use the "well, rr's rape my tanks!" argument because Schrecks rape tanks too!!! The Wehr tanks are so much better at fighting infantry than allied tanks, i lost a whole vet 2 ab squad, full health all members to one shot of a tiger, that dont happen to Wehr unless its arty

the RR AB squad have the same health as the BAR AB squad, the RR AB squad just lack the dps. Volks or gren can probably win in a fight, but no fast enough to act as deterrent. The main advantage of the RR is that they are effective even at long range. Infantry back up isn't going to hurt the ab fast enough to actually chase off the RR, and as I said before any damage done to vehicles are effectively permanent.

Storm are indeed very powerful, but that depends entirely on catching their victim unaware. If I manage to find a storm squad, I can just use suppress and the storm are dead in the water. By comparison the ab's fire+up also allow them to escape certain death situation, and the ab armor provide dodging bonus against most form of small arms. (british is a bit different, but that's another story)

The tiger is one of the best AI tank in the game, but not something every axis going to have. The sherman's are better AI than the panzeriv at AI since a grenadier squad only has 4 men compared to the ab's six men. The cromwell can literally dance around any schreck squad.  

[DarkSoldierX]

Tym, your asking us to use just infantry, 30 pop of infantry.... all on at the same time? As Wher or even worse as PE? Are you crazy? They will all proboly get raped by a HMG and a strafing run.

[Firesparks]

So what your saying is that the airborne player is allowed to combine arms with tanks and AB squads, but all the AB's victims are running around, no combined arms, no counters, AB just kill everything without regards to player company compisition and skill.

This can just not be used as an argument, there are many many ways to destroy AB that Wehr and PE can utilize.


Yeah that's true, so long as there is a healing source on the field, AB will be able to cycle back and heal.. Till one firestorm comes down, kills the medics and then the AB player cant heal the rest of the game.

OR a triage, if we want something alittle less squisy. Busting a triage is no harder than it is busting an 88. And 88s are easy with alittle smoke and grenades.

Firesparks, your entire RR = too good argument rests on the assumption that the axis players are comatose at the keyboard, or there is some type of vast skill disparity, and apart from the AB health argument. Well they are still assault troops with no AI capabilities until you get asymmetric warfare and for this reason, they need to be durable.

Any non vehicle based AI will tear through AB. And if there is AI protection around the AB, then it's up to the axis player to bring units to deal with it.

It's impossible to balance squads in a vacuum. companies need to be built to face any threat, those that do not, well their owners come on here and complain.

It is not that hard to put in a few flame pios and pumas. Or slow and ISTs if your playing PE. its all about adapting.

1) the extra squad you can field as a result of Raid probably helps a bit with the numeric superiority.
2) RR airborne isn't fragile. It's basically the Rifle AB carrying carbines and RR instead of garand and bar. Sure the RR Ab will lose eventually but you don't stay around to lose. (probably why slow is effective. It make sure the RR ab stick around to lose).
3) Even if the axis isn't brain dead, the fact is that RR is just as powerful at long range as it is a short range. The RR will shoot the instant they stop moving, unlike where you have to take a few extra second to aim the schreck. You can't seriously suggesting an all infantry coy to fight ab?
It's one thing to bring up mainly AI because he's fielding infantry atm. It's another thing entirely to suggest keeping mostly AI in your company just so you can fight the airborne.

[Mysthalin]

Now it's time to assume that the axis player isn't comatose.

He brings on his 40 range, 5 speed P4 and with it - a bike.

There you go, 15 popcap of the most basic vehicle-based Anti-Inf, which will get rid of all your RR troubles. All you need to do is not fall asleep kiting.

Other alternatives include 2x20mm puma and a bike(same range and pop + phase armour + cheaper), the 45 mu bundle grenade squad (that can throw the grenade even when pinned, if needed) and the MG-car(a trivial 3 popcap - phase armour, MG42 gun and can just ignore fire-up, as the airborne can't really "flank" it).

[Uglysori]

Why would they need to fire up and flank against a locked down scout car when they can just fire up, satchel and back off?

[Mysthalin]

because the satchel won't kill the scout car anyway. And even if it does(with help from the actual RRs) - the airborne will seriously lose a lot of men killing it.

Not to mention I can field 2 scout cars for every airborne squad in terms of popcap - and I won't exactly be paying more than for the single airborne squad, either.

[Smokaz]

ac spam used to put the fear in rr nawbz back in the day

[nugnugx]

ac spam used to put the fear in rr nawbz back in the day

did you call?

[Smokaz]

ffsfsfsafsfasfasfs

is nug still spamming 50mms

[WriterX]

During one game I had I use my Wehr Defensive Doctrine Rocket Barrage. Having in mind that even the toughest tommies, and the toughest basic infantry squads were squashed if hit directly I looked with great anticipation at the AB blob on which the barrage was directed. Although most of the missiles missed, or hit partly, I especialy noted a single missile hitting directly 2 VET 3 AB squads. To my astonishment they did not lose a single man and in fact lost maybe... a sixth of their health bar?

Say what you like, the rocket barrage normaly is very effective against infantry, but if a barrage of that sort cannot harm an AB squad easily, I doubt most things could do it easily. I recall my Vet 3 Grens falling like flies to a Calliope barrage, which I believe technicaly is less powerful.

[fallensoldier7]

Are you serious when you say that an entire calliope barrage is less powerful than 1 rocket of defensive rocket arty?

[Groundfire]

Rocket barrage is most effective against tanks. It rly is garbage against infantry.

That coupled with AB armor and the apparent vet 1 received acc. bonus, its no wonder why those AB took a direct missile and lived.

[Firesparks]

During one game I had I use my Wehr Defensive Doctrine Rocket Barrage. Having in mind that even the toughest tommies, and the toughest basic infantry squads were squashed if hit directly I looked with great anticipation at the AB blob on which the barrage was directed. Although most of the missiles missed, or hit partly, I especialy noted a single missile hitting directly 2 VET 3 AB squads. To my astonishment they did not lose a single man and in fact lost maybe... a sixth of their health bar?

Say what you like, the rocket barrage normaly is very effective against infantry, but if a barrage of that sort cannot harm an AB squad easily, I doubt most things could do it easily. I recall my Vet 3 Grens falling like flies to a Calliope barrage, which I believe technicaly is less powerful.

vet3 ab squad with easy is the toughest squad in the game. Vet3 KCH/storm is probably tougher individually, but ab squad has six men.

[Computer991]

LET THIS THREAD DIE ALREADY.

Vet 3 KCH are better off in survivalaviitafdlas(survival) AB just have more men.. Imagine a 6 man KCH squad..

[Tymathee]

Vet 0 Oakleaves KCH > Vet 3 any t4 ab

[NightRain]

Vet 0 Oakleaves KCH > Vet 3 any t4 ab

Charge Easy AB Rifleman squad with BARs that is Vet 3. I wish you luck