[cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)

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[Firesparks]

The Mp44 for the PE and wehr ignore soldier armor. This make it very diffcult to fight mp44 storm, KCH, and the assualt grenadiers when you're British.

The mp44 storm is especially bad since you're always fighting them at close range because of cloak. Even vetted tommy with LT bonus still get tore to pieces.

[Demon767]

your point being?

[rifle87654]

your point being?

Only mandos can go toe to toe with them.
So he thinks that's too op, right?

[BigDick]

bren tommi > all

don't know about storms since i barely see any mp44 storms in eir but not moving bren tommis rape PE infantry (falls, assault grens, g43 grens...not 100% sure about assault flammen )

bren tommis > assaulting KCH btw.

[Grundwaffe]

First, ofc british are weak troops because they are more specialized in emplacement but you should know that already.

Regular tommis are riflemen and can be equipped by upgrades just like US riflemen and they get ownd to by MP44.

Cause their riflemen not assault troops like, Rangers. - But yeah, bren hurts as BigDick says especially in green cover.

[LeoPhone]

First, ofc british are weak troops because they are more specialized in emplacement but you should know that already.

Regular tommis are riflemen and can be equipped by upgrades just like US riflemen and they get ownd to by MP44.

Cause their riflemen not assault troops like, Rangers. - But yeah, bren hurts as BigDick says especially in green cover.

brits are not weak and they are A LOT stronger than rifleman. they have 65 hp per man instead of 55 of the rifleman and they have soldier armour intead of infantry armour. the wehrmacht kar rifle for example does x0.6 dmg vs soldier armor(x1 vs inf armor)
total hp of rifleman vs kar: 55x6/1=330
total hp of tommies vs kar: 65x5/0.6=542

[NightRain]

I find it odd that the only counter for massive vet bren armies is a sniper and mg42

[Groundfire]

I think numbers should be compared both ways.

an PE assault squad would get mauled badly by charging a bren tommy squad, and even more so when there's a leiutenant around.

MP44 storms, for the price your getting them should beat most units hands down, and they would still take a beating.

So for the most part, i think the matchup is balanced even if the numbers look like they offer a discrepancy.
They're assault infantry, if they didnt win out over normal infantry on a consistant basis, then there would be no need for them or lack of want to field MP44 troops.

[EliteGren]

I'm not supporting any Vcoh stat changes at all. Fine as is tbh.

[Firesparks]

I think numbers should be compared both ways.

an PE assault squad would get mauled badly by charging a bren tommy squad, and even more so when there's a leiutenant around.

MP44 storms, for the price your getting them should beat most units hands down, and they would still take a beating.

So for the most part, i think the matchup is balanced even if the numbers look like they offer a discrepancy.
They're assault infantry, if they didnt win out over normal infantry on a consistant basis, then there would be no need for them or lack of want to field MP44 troops.

throwing in the LT in is a bit much isn't it?

There's still the question how should the british counter storm blob. As the US I have bar rifles (suppression), rangers, and AB rifle. All of them have excellent close range power and in the worst case I can use nade. Ab rifle and rifle probably need nads, but the rangers can manhandle storms.

The british lee enfield is horrible at close range. Their detector are even more horrible at combat because of their upgrade penalty. I've had a vet3 bren tommy +lt who got beaten by a vet 2 Mp44, and both were in equal cover. The commandos can handle the mp44 storm, but if we throw up the doc units, the US would still have their suppression fire.  

[Demon767]

Insta suppression HMGS, Non doctrine arty, stag hounds, crom wells, rifle nades,

two bren tommrie squads will be enough to wipe out any assaulting troops

theres no change needed.

[Firesparks]

brits are not weak and they are A LOT stronger than rifleman. they have 65 hp per man instead of 55 of the rifleman and they have soldier armour intead of infantry armour. the wehrmacht kar rifle for example does x0.6 dmg vs soldier armor(x1 vs inf armor)
total hp of rifleman vs kar: 55x6/1=330
total hp of tommies vs kar: 65x5/0.6=542

that's the volks/leader kar's damage modifer, and it's .65.
the PE, gren, storm kar have a damage modifier of .75

65/.75 = 86(by comparsion the grenadier have 80 hp)
65/.65 = 100

And the soldier is inconsistent. Volks kar is probably the least effective weapon against the tommies. There's a couple axis weapon that ignore soldier armor. (most famously the flamethrower)

[Demon767]

so what your saying is because they have 1 disadvantage in one area (which is nullified by dual Brens) it has to be buffed??

no bad reasoning to balance.

[Firesparks]

so what your saying is because they have 1 disadvantage in one area (which is nullified by dual Brens) it has to be buffed??

no bad reasoning to balance.

I was responding to leo phone, not to you.

[Demon767]

nah nah i dont mean it like that, im trying to understand your reasoning to balance it

Brits have one small disadvantage, yet it still can take on assault troops if your able to engage them from long to short, or from medium to short.

Or from medium - medium or long - long.

If the assault troops get the jump on you, and your are unenable to engage them as they run at you, than its good play by the assault troop player, but the bren would still take out 1-2 of the assault troops

thats what im saying ,theres no need to change because both have pro's and con's. it all depends on your knowledge on how to use them properly

[Firesparks]

nah nah i dont mean it like that, im trying to understand your reasoning to balance it

Brits have one small disadvantage, yet it still can take on assault troops if your able to engage them from long to short, or from medium to short.

Or from medium - medium or long - long.

If the assault troops get the jump on you, and your are unenable to engage them as they run at you, than its good play by the assault troop player, but the bren would still take out 1-2 of the assault troops

thats what im saying ,theres no need to change because both have pro's and con's. it all depends on your knowledge on how to use them properly

The tommies do have to price for their strength, and would I say they're not quite worth their price unless you have a bren and LT around.

And We're not quite talking about a unit. British faction as a whole have a hard time dealing with cloaked unit. Storm Mp44 is just one of the problem.

[bayarea510]

Isn't that's why brits have recons to scout?

And We're not quite talking about a unit. British faction as a whole have a hard time dealing with cloaked unit. Storm Mp44 is just one of the problem.

[AmPM]

Shhhh....people obviously shouldn't have to use scouting units, thats silly talk.

[Demon767]

AHem!

Considering that you DONT need a lt around, a unit so versatile that it can take on every single Axis infantry to an EXTENT. quite reliably. but also, be on a tough platform which also has the ability to button tanks.

the price is justified

[Firesparks]

Isn't that's why brits have recons to scout?

Shhhh....people obviously shouldn't have to use scouting units, thats silly talk.

The Recon is the worst close combat unit ever. Finding a mp44 storm with your Recon is death for your recon.
If even if you use the marksman shot, the recon still have to sit still while the mp44 get in close and tear you to pieces.

The squad also takes up full 5 pop squad, and usually the british have to save up to 6 pop just for your officers. You can say it's a matter of trading combat power or sight, but there's the question of if the tommies are worth their price without the LT bonus

AHem!

Considering that you DONT need a lt around, a unit so versatile that it can take on every single Axis infantry to an EXTENT. quite reliably. but also, be on a tough platform which also has the ability to button tanks.

the price is justified

Infantry is not the only thing infantry have to fight.
There's alot of stuff that ignore soldier armor in the wehr arsenal. Suddenly your 100/86 HP tommy turns into 65 hp tommy that just dies.
Mostly notable the Pziv IST outright ignore tommies armor, and the tiger gets a ... 10% penalty against tommies. Their shell hurts, ALOT.
If it's just Tommy + LT versus infantry the tommies will probably win. Most people pack more than just infantry.