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[cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)
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Topic: [cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE) (Read 7199 times)
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Firesparks
Honoured Member
Posts: 1209
[cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)
«
on:
August 04, 2010, 04:51:51 am »
The Mp44 for the PE and wehr ignore soldier armor. This make it very diffcult to fight mp44 storm, KCH, and the assualt grenadiers when you're British.
The mp44 storm is especially bad since you're always fighting them at close range because of cloak. Even vetted tommy with LT bonus still get tore to pieces.
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Demon767
Warmap Betatester
EIR Veteran
Posts: 6190
Re: [cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)
«
Reply #1 on:
August 04, 2010, 05:43:27 am »
your point being?
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Generalleutnant of The Reichs Wolves
Nevergetsputonlistguy767
rifle87654
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1107
Re: [cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)
«
Reply #2 on:
August 04, 2010, 05:49:50 am »
Quote from: Demon767 on August 04, 2010, 05:43:27 am
your point being?
Only mandos can go toe to toe with them.
So he thinks that's too op, right?
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Quote from: TheIcelandicManiac on July 13, 2011, 09:33:42 am
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Anyway he's hilarious.
BigDick
Guest
Re: [cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)
«
Reply #3 on:
August 04, 2010, 06:19:11 am »
bren tommi > all
don't know about storms since i barely see any mp44 storms in eir but not moving bren tommis rape PE infantry (falls, assault grens, g43 grens...not 100% sure about assault flammen )
bren tommis > assaulting KCH btw.
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Grundwaffe
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1128
Re: [cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)
«
Reply #4 on:
August 04, 2010, 07:12:14 am »
First, ofc british are weak troops because they are more specialized in emplacement but you should know that already.
Regular tommis are riflemen and can be equipped by upgrades just like US riflemen and they get ownd to by MP44.
Cause their riflemen not assault troops like, Rangers. - But yeah, bren hurts as BigDick says especially in green cover.
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LeoPhone
Honoured Member
Posts: 0
Re: [cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)
«
Reply #5 on:
August 04, 2010, 07:43:19 am »
Quote from: Grundwaffe on August 04, 2010, 07:12:14 am
First, ofc british are weak troops because they are more specialized in emplacement but you should know that already.
Regular tommis are riflemen and can be equipped by upgrades just like US riflemen and they get ownd to by MP44.
Cause their riflemen not assault troops like, Rangers. - But yeah, bren hurts as BigDick says especially in green cover.
brits are not weak and they are A LOT stronger than rifleman. they have 65 hp per man instead of 55 of the rifleman and they have soldier armour intead of infantry armour. the wehrmacht kar rifle for example does x0.6 dmg vs soldier armor(x1 vs inf armor)
total hp of rifleman vs kar: 55x6/1=330
total hp of tommies vs kar: 65x5/0.6=542
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NightRain
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3908
Re: [cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)
«
Reply #6 on:
August 04, 2010, 08:02:17 am »
I find it odd that the only counter for massive vet bren armies is a sniper and mg42
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Quote from: Unkn0wn on June 05, 2011, 04:01:40 am
Because a forum post should be like a woman's skirt. Long enough to cover the subject material, but short enough to keep things interesting.
Groundfire
EIRR community manager
EIR Veteran
Posts: 8511
Re: [cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)
«
Reply #7 on:
August 04, 2010, 08:09:49 am »
I think numbers should be compared both ways.
an PE assault squad would get mauled badly by charging a bren tommy squad, and even more so when there's a leiutenant around.
MP44 storms, for the price your getting them should beat most units hands down, and they would still take a beating.
So for the most part, i think the matchup is balanced even if the numbers look like they offer a discrepancy.
They're assault infantry, if they didnt win out over normal infantry on a consistant basis, then there would be no need for them or lack of want to field MP44 troops.
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EliteGren
EIR Veteran
Posts: 6106
Re: [cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)
«
Reply #8 on:
August 04, 2010, 08:56:50 am »
I'm not supporting any Vcoh stat changes at all. Fine as is tbh.
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Quote from: deadbolt on December 30, 2010, 09:14:16 am
i prefer to no u
Quote from: deadbolt on July 30, 2012, 08:08:48 am
Don't knock it til uve tried it bitchface, this isn't anything like salads version. Besides u said a semois conversion would never work, now look that's the most played map, ohgodwhy.jpg r u map lead
Firesparks
Honoured Member
Posts: 1209
Re: [cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)
«
Reply #9 on:
August 04, 2010, 02:30:44 pm »
Quote from: Groundfire on August 04, 2010, 08:09:49 am
I think numbers should be compared both ways.
an PE assault squad would get mauled badly by charging a bren tommy squad, and even more so when there's a leiutenant around.
MP44 storms, for the price your getting them should beat most units hands down, and they would still take a beating.
So for the most part, i think the matchup is balanced even if the numbers look like they offer a discrepancy.
They're assault infantry, if they didnt win out over normal infantry on a consistant basis, then there would be no need for them or lack of want to field MP44 troops.
throwing in the LT in is a bit much isn't it?
There's still the question how should the british counter storm blob. As the US I have bar rifles (suppression), rangers, and AB rifle. All of them have excellent close range power and in the worst case I can use nade. Ab rifle and rifle probably need nads, but the rangers can manhandle storms.
The british lee enfield is horrible at close range. Their detector are even more horrible at combat because of their upgrade penalty. I've had a vet3 bren tommy +lt who got beaten by a vet 2 Mp44, and both were in equal cover. The commandos can handle the mp44 storm, but if we throw up the doc units, the US would still have their suppression fire.
«
Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 02:39:58 pm by Firesparks
»
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Demon767
Warmap Betatester
EIR Veteran
Posts: 6190
Re: [cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)
«
Reply #10 on:
August 04, 2010, 02:46:08 pm »
Insta suppression HMGS, Non doctrine arty, stag hounds, crom wells, rifle nades,
two bren tommrie squads will be enough to wipe out any assaulting troops
theres no change needed.
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Firesparks
Honoured Member
Posts: 1209
Re: [cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)
«
Reply #11 on:
August 04, 2010, 02:50:52 pm »
Quote from: LeoPhone on August 04, 2010, 07:43:19 am
brits are not weak and they are A LOT stronger than rifleman. they have 65 hp per man instead of 55 of the rifleman and they have soldier armour intead of infantry armour. the wehrmacht kar rifle for example does x0.6 dmg vs soldier armor(x1 vs inf armor)
total hp of rifleman vs kar: 55x6/1=330
total hp of tommies vs kar: 65x5/0.6=542
that's the volks/leader kar's damage modifer, and it's .65.
the PE, gren, storm kar have a damage modifier of .75
65/.75 = 86(by comparsion the grenadier have 80 hp)
65/.65 = 100
And the soldier is inconsistent. Volks kar is probably the least effective weapon against the tommies. There's a couple axis weapon that ignore soldier armor. (most famously the flamethrower)
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Demon767
Warmap Betatester
EIR Veteran
Posts: 6190
Re: [cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)
«
Reply #12 on:
August 04, 2010, 02:56:09 pm »
so what your saying is because they have 1 disadvantage in one area (which is nullified by dual Brens) it has to be buffed??
no bad reasoning to balance.
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Firesparks
Honoured Member
Posts: 1209
Re: [cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)
«
Reply #13 on:
August 04, 2010, 02:57:39 pm »
Quote from: Demon767 on August 04, 2010, 02:56:09 pm
so what your saying is because they have 1 disadvantage in one area (which is nullified by dual Brens) it has to be buffed??
no bad reasoning to balance.
I was responding to leo phone, not to you.
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Demon767
Warmap Betatester
EIR Veteran
Posts: 6190
Re: [cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)
«
Reply #14 on:
August 04, 2010, 03:26:34 pm »
nah nah i dont mean it like that, im trying to understand your reasoning to balance it
Brits have one small disadvantage, yet it still can take on assault troops if your able to engage them from long to short, or from medium to short.
Or from medium - medium or long - long.
If the assault troops get the jump on you, and your are unenable to engage them as they run at you, than its good play by the assault troop player, but the bren would still take out 1-2 of the assault troops
thats what im saying ,theres no need to change because both have pro's and con's. it all depends on your knowledge on how to use them properly
«
Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 03:46:52 pm by Demon767
»
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Firesparks
Honoured Member
Posts: 1209
Re: [cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)
«
Reply #15 on:
August 04, 2010, 06:14:56 pm »
Quote from: Demon767 on August 04, 2010, 03:26:34 pm
nah nah i dont mean it like that, im trying to understand your reasoning to balance it
Brits have one small disadvantage, yet it still can take on assault troops if your able to engage them from long to short, or from medium to short.
Or from medium - medium or long - long.
If the assault troops get the jump on you, and your are unenable to engage them as they run at you, than its good play by the assault troop player, but the bren would still take out 1-2 of the assault troops
thats what im saying ,theres no need to change because both have pro's and con's. it all depends on your knowledge on how to use them properly
The tommies do have to price for their strength, and would I say they're not quite worth their price unless you have a bren and LT around.
And We're not quite talking about a unit. British faction as a whole have a hard time dealing with cloaked unit. Storm Mp44 is just one of the problem.
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bayarea510
EIR Veteran
Posts: 338
Re: [cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)
«
Reply #16 on:
August 04, 2010, 11:13:43 pm »
Isn't that's why brits have recons to scout?
Quote from: Firesparks on August 04, 2010, 06:14:56 pm
And We're not quite talking about a unit. British faction as a whole have a hard time dealing with cloaked unit. Storm Mp44 is just one of the problem.
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AmPM
Community Mapper
Posts: 7978
Re: [cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)
«
Reply #17 on:
August 04, 2010, 11:24:31 pm »
Shhhh....people obviously shouldn't have to use scouting units, thats silly talk.
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Demon767
Warmap Betatester
EIR Veteran
Posts: 6190
Re: [cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)
«
Reply #18 on:
August 04, 2010, 11:40:14 pm »
AHem!
Considering that you DONT need a lt around, a unit so versatile that it can take on every single Axis infantry to an EXTENT. quite reliably. but also, be on a tough platform which also has the ability to button tanks.
the price is justified
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Firesparks
Honoured Member
Posts: 1209
Re: [cw] Mp44 vs Soldier armor (brit, PE)
«
Reply #19 on:
August 05, 2010, 12:25:38 am »
Quote from: bayarea510 on August 04, 2010, 11:13:43 pm
Isn't that's why brits have recons to scout?
Quote from: AmPM on August 04, 2010, 11:24:31 pm
Shhhh....people obviously shouldn't have to use scouting units, thats silly talk.
The Recon is the worst close combat unit ever. Finding a mp44 storm with your Recon is death for your recon.
If even if you use the marksman shot, the recon still have to sit still while the mp44 get in close and tear you to pieces.
The squad also takes up full 5 pop squad, and usually the british have to save up to 6 pop just for your officers. You can say it's a matter of trading combat power or sight, but there's the question of if the tommies are worth their price without the LT bonus
Quote from: Demon767 on August 04, 2010, 11:40:14 pm
AHem!
Considering that you DONT need a lt around, a unit so versatile that it can take on every single Axis infantry to an EXTENT. quite reliably. but also, be on a tough platform which also has the ability to button tanks.
the price is justified
Infantry is not the only thing infantry have to fight.
There's alot of stuff that ignore soldier armor in the wehr arsenal. Suddenly your 100/86 HP tommy turns into 65 hp tommy that just dies.
Mostly notable the Pziv IST outright ignore tommies armor, and the tiger gets a ... 10% penalty against tommies. Their shell hurts, ALOT.
If it's just Tommy + LT versus infantry the tommies will probably win. Most people pack more than just infantry.
«
Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 12:56:26 am by Firesparks
»
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