[us] Airborne Sniper

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[Spartan_Marine88]

Sappers are basic inf, not tommies

oh

[Firesparks]

Here's whats what:

Basic inf: Rifles, Engineers, assault rifles
             Sappers
             Panzergrens, assault-grens, tank busters, luftwaffle
             Volks, Pios

Medium/light assault infantry:
                                          Commandos, Tommies
                                          Fallschirmjagers
                                          Grenadiers

Heavy infantry:

                       Airborne, Airborne rifles, Rangers
                       Stormtroopers, KCH

Further explanations...

- Americans have good basic infantry, no medium infantry and very good heavy infantry
- PE has good basic and medium infantry, but no heavy
- Brits have weak basic inf, very good medium infantry and okayish medium inf
- Wehr got good basic infantry, very good medium infantry and a good elite infantry

just how are you categorizing them? Their performance? their price per man, their price per squad? Their "style of play"?

The commandos cost a heafty 350 mp 165 mu but you classify them as lower than the cheaper AB rifle squad.

Right now the PG is the most expensive and best performing basic squad in your category, infact a bit more expensive than the most expensive basic rifles, the US rifle. If the PG was "medium" it would be the worst of the alot....

[Spartan_Marine88]

just how are you categorizing them? Their performance? their price per man, their price per squad? Their "style of play"

im guessing by HP/armour general staying ability and possibly weapons that can be used

I know i suck at Americans I don't like their infantry, im not used to thier playstyle (3 years as VCOH ami will do that i guess)

But that means I SUCK AT AMI, not the units

[Smokaz]

1) personal experience

2) manpower cost

3) HP!!!! (armor class to a lesser degree)

4) recrewing potential

But.. even so.. everyone understands that you have to class them as what they actually are, not what one wants them to be. As much as people would want PE to have a 'grenadier' or a tommie, they dont have it.

Sadly PE inf is supposed to be able to use stuff like group zeal and adv.repair, and they have lost out on a lot of vCoh versatility that hasn't been restored to them
`

The commandos cost a heafty 350 mp 165 mu but you classify them as lower than the cheaper AB rifle squad.

Special special, I would classify them both as heavy infantry, but commandos like FSJ don't get that special beefiness like the other heavies. Also they underperform as heavy infantry, but perform well within their own class and vs lower classes.

[MittinsKittens]

lol Demon.
And Fire. I'm pretty sure he's doing it by their proformance in battle if you really must know.
And smokaz, that list seems personally feels like its overcomplicating it, just have 2 lists, basic and elites xD

[Spartan_Marine88]

But.. even so.. everyone understands that you have to class them as what they actually are, not what one wants them to be. As much as people would want PE to have a 'grenadier' or a tommie, they dont have it.

Sadly PE inf is supposed to be able to use stuff like group zeal and adv.repair, and they have lost out on a lot of vCoh versatility that hasn't been restored to them

Although having a super moving armoured car that can cap and transform into a MG at will is pretty awesome

[Firesparks]

1) personal experience

2) manpower cost

3) HP!!!! (armor class to a lesser degree)

4) recrewing potential

But.. even so.. everyone understands that you have to class them as what they actually are, not what one wants them to be. As much as people would want PE to have a 'grenadier' or a tommie, they dont have it.

2 is the most important. The unit's performance should reflect their prices. You place PG in the basic category, but if you were to classify purely by their price where should the PG be?

[Smokaz]

I feel the need to add that Airborne rifles are classified as heavy infantry because they are overpowered for MP cost, imo the squad needs to change completely but hey whos listening?

I think the price right now for regular panzergrenadiers is allright, since I never buy the sergeant upgrade. If you count in the expensive sergeant upgrade, it's definitely expensive.

Keep in mind panzergrenadiers are weak against flames and grenades, in a perfect world you would be fighting like this to avoid the big soldier armor issues:

Assaultgrens vs Flamers and Rifles w/grenades only

PG G43's or just Kars vs Bars

The basic PE types can fight commandos very well imo, its just the american heavy infantry that completely stomps them. Rightly so, volks get real cockstomped by the american heavy infantry as well. Another indication of PE being closer to the american rifleman squad than the wehr grenadiers.

[Groundfire]

I hope there's a patch coming soon

+10

[Spartan_Marine88]

2 is the most important. The unit's performance should reflect their prices. You place PG in the basic category, but if you were to classify purely by their price where should the PG be?

Basic

I think the price right now for regular panzergrenadiers is allright, since I never buy the sergeant upgrade. If you count in the expensive sergeant upgrade, it's definitely expensive.

What does the Sergeant do?

[Smokaz]

+10

I edited that out since it didnt have anything to do with the topic, but here's my patch wishlist:

- AB sniper / Terror sniper subtypes goes down 50 munitions (old change I submitted long ago)
- FSJ Tankbusters gets a 4th man for 5 pop, or goes down to 3 pop.. or gets removed
- AB rifles goes up to 300 mp
- Rangers go down to 310 mp

Basic

What does the Sergeant do?

25% less inc. supression afaik

[Spartan_Marine88]

I edited that out since it didnt have anything to do with the topic, but here's my patch wishlist:

- AB sniper / Terror sniper subtypes goes down 50 munitions (old change I submitted long ago)
- FSJ Tankbusters gets a 4th man for 5 pop, or goes down to 3 pop.. or gets removed

25% less inc. supression afaik

thanks

[Firesparks]

Basic

at least volks get 5 men to be wasted against sniper. PG have 4 men only. Normally PE is suppose to vehicle heavy but the AB RR rape vehicle, and the AB Sniper take care of any PG as well. At least the infantry or Armor sniper can be easily to kill once you do find them, but the AB sniper have cloak, heroic armor/crit, and fire+up. It's basically a super sniper against PE along side with Rape RR for vehicles.  

I edited that out since it didnt have anything to do with the topic, but here's my patch wishlist:

- AB sniper / Terror sniper subtypes goes down 50 munitions (old change I submitted long ago)
- FSJ Tankbusters gets a 4th man for 5 pop, or goes down to 3 pop.. or gets removed
- AB rifles goes up to 300 mp
- Rangers go down to 310 mp

25% less inc. supression afaik

Take it up with bob. He would have to approve such changes. I only do bugfix because it's just going to get messy if I start changing the balance of my own accord.

[Spartan_Marine88]

at least volks get 5 men to be wasted against sniper. PG have 4 men only. Normally PE is suppose to vehicle heavy but the AB RR rape vehicle, and the AB Sniper take care of any PG as well. At least the infantry or Armor sniper can be easily to kill once you do find them, but the AB sniper have cloak, heroic armor/crit, and fire+up. It's basically a super sniper against PE along side with Rape RR for vehicles.  
Take it up with bob. He would have to approve such changes.

*sigh* stop whining about snipers to a british player.

[Smokaz]

Well, volks can't sprint and slow the AB sniper?

Thats non-doctrinal right there.

The locked down scoutcar is a lot better against AB that people give it credit for, I actually got one to vet 3 in two games. Unlike the mg42 this thing seems to kill ab on top of supressing them, their damage output at medium range seems very good.

That said I dont know why the RGD coders (You, Bobsmith and Gamesguy) when designing this unit, didn't add in a modifier vs soldier armor so he wouldn't do as many 1 shot kills against PE inf @ 55 hp as he would against volks?

IF the intention was that AB sniper wouldnt always 1 shot kill inf, that is? Obviously whoever then coded in the AB sniper perceived the PE squads as being basic infantry, and they needing to be one-shotted like volks.

Anyways Firesparks, its all good Im sure it will be worked out next patch. I agree its tough on PE that the AB sniper can munch up all their inf squads with one hit, and that they cant pull on grens and kch. I would argue though that grens are vulnerable to the AB sniper equally to panzergrens, it just takes longer time for him to kill them, they do cost slightly more somewhat explaining this.

[Spartan_Marine88]

The locked down scoutcar is a lot better against AB that people give it credit for, I actually got one to vet 3 in two games. Unlike the mg42 this thing seems to kill ab on top of supressing them, their damage output at medium range seems very good.

Combine that and an IST and you got a very lethal combo

[Smokaz]

Combine that and an IST and you got a very lethal combo

4 pop at gun

[Firesparks]

Well, volks can't sprint and slow the AB sniper?

Thats non-doctrinal right there.

The locked down scoutcar is a lot better against AB that people give it credit for, I actually got one to vet 3 in two games. Unlike the mg42 this thing seems to kill ab on top of supressing them, their damage output at medium range seems very good.

That said I dont know why the RGD coders (You, Bobsmith and Gamesguy) when designing this unit, didn't add in a modifier vs soldier armor so he wouldn't do as many 1 shot kills against PE inf @ 55 hp as he would against volks?

IF the intention was that AB sniper wouldnt always 1 shot kill inf, that is? Obviously whoever then coded in the AB sniper perceived the PE squads as being basic infantry, and they needing to be one-shotted like volks.

Anyways Firesparks, its all good Im sure it will be worked out next patch. I agree its tough on PE that the AB sniper can munch up all their inf squads with one hit, and that they cant pull on grens and kch. I would argue though that grens are vulnerable to the AB sniper equally to panzergrens, it just takes longer time for him to kill them, they do cost slightly more somewhat explaining this.

The main difference is that the Heroic armor on the AB sniper allow him to survive things that would have killed normal sniper, and the Fire+up also help as well.
The scout car is good but not quite the perfect solution. The atg can hit the scout car with relatively no problem and the penalty period means the scout car can't get out of a jam.

[Spartan_Marine88]

4 pop at gun

maybe, but both IST and Scout car can circle

[Firesparks]

maybe, but both IST and Scout car can circle

A mobile scout car have worst DPS, and if it's AB, circle strafing a 57mm guarded by AB is suicidal.