Reasons why EIR is declining in popularity.

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[Spartan_Marine88]

Well i think the solution i simple, your level 9 on your company

War ends

everyone is back to level 1 on the war map, your company is still level 9 but your limited to how much you can field as you  are only a lowly Major again. (your vet, doctrines are still all there)

Maybe instead of having the holding box drain vet, have it so that you can put your stuff in so that its there waiting for when you are a high enough level that it doesn't "over pop" your company.

[Groundfire]

I think you just gotta stop thinking of it as a grind. The only thing that changes for my playstyle after 40 games is that I "might" have a pershing/tiger/calli/KT/ etc. lying around.

All the other time its like, i log on one day and am like "Oh, i got enough PPs for X ability" i buy it and move on.

Not reseting companies at the end of the war would get just as boring in my eyes as the resets are to salan's.

How are you going to explain it when at the start of the war, we get a slew of new players and game 1 they have to face the regular's always lvl9 all the time companies?

How fair would that be with any system?

For some people, the number one reason that keeps people from starting this mod is that they have the notion that everyone will have better stuff then they do. Full vet, full leveled companies will just reinforce that stereotype.

My brother wont play EIR for this reason, and even GR expert Seb asked me that question when I got him to come and play a few months back, and I had to explain that this wasnt the case, but a change like no company resets would just make this the norm.

There needs to be some kind of grind and at the start of the war, everyone should be equal, otherwise we remove the one lasting goal we have been able to obtain in development thus far, company development.

With that being said, i have no problem refining the grind. There's the popular idea of gaining PPs and exp every day regardless of the amount of games played, that way after a week or 2 of inactivity you'll still have a lvl9 co.

An idea ive been kicking around is that to lower exp lvls, increase PP gain, and grind the normal way, but every new company you create will start off at a percentage of the total PPs and exp of your main company, so you can jump to something new with no trouble and have half the grind done.

Then a combination of these two will still leave some early war competition, but equalizes players very fast.

No resets ever, is a no-go imo. Takes away too much of the game.

[AmPM]

I think moving more away from doctrine buffs and more towards additional vet levels and harder to get vet would help keep more interest.

Right now its basically finish company, play it a few times, bored.

More unlocks fixed to the units themselves based on vet would make things more interesting. Say, Tiger vet 2, do you want Turret Rotation or 10% more Accuracy? Pick and choose unlocks (upgrades) for you units as they level up. They don't cost anything but you only get 1 per level.

[Mysthalin]

AmPM's idea actually has merit..

More vet levels, and harder to gain vet in general..

Hmm...

[Smokaz]

Vet levels and high requirements are great, they do it in OMG and people are much much more impressed by the occasional vet 4 700 xp panther. and you generally don't see vetted airborne blobs as much because the requirements are much higher. Plus you got the whole "named unit" thing.

[Groundfire]

I like that too. kinda have a PE veterancy system going where you can choose between "offensive" and "defensive" veterancy.

But i still like grinding for the doctrines. No reason why we cant get both. There should be enough to do company wise to keep players occupied for the whole war at the very least.

[tank130]

I suggested a long time ago that Doctrines would be the biggest downfall of this MOd. It creates too many balance issues and causes too much grieve. AmPm's idea is very similar to what I suggested month's ago.
Veterancy and venterancy abilities seem more like a persistence thing than doctrines. Doctrines tend to have a more fantasy feel to them.
Making it difficult to gain veterancy would make it feel more like an achievement to get it. Of course people are going to vet hunt it, but taking out the biggest threat is important in battle.

[MittinsKittens]

Just wanted to pitch in my 2pennys about the vet, the idea of higher vet requirements and higher vet sound awesome. Specially that name a unit thing. If it gives me the chance to get a Vet 5 KT and name it KiTty then jesus christ I would fall in love with the mod
And I'm surpised how well the thread is going, nice to see the forums can get srs when needed :3
Also, I just want to say, why would the implement of the warmap be such an awesome thing? The way I see it, is that its just a little thing that has been tacked onto the mod looks pretty. If we win it slides one way, if we lose it slides the other way.
Or is there more to the warmap then that? Is there going to be things put into the warmap that will make me(us) really want to win or lose.
And what Smokaz said about having like "newspaper reports" of what happened the previous day would be pretty awesome. You could even expand on that by adding stories about certain units (like, KiTty killing yet another 5 tanks in battle bringing it up to a kill total of 53 tanks, or talk about loses of units, like KiTty has been killed in combat by the ruthless Airbournes under the Commander of MorkandBorka and other little stories like that.
would be an awesome to see our name in "lights". Really all I got time to say, need to get back to work :3

[MorkaandBorka]

Hmmmm...

The thing is that most of everyones ideas are pretty darn good, which in fact is kinda strange.  I remember when we actually did have a little "ticker" that said who was winning the war AND the newspaper clippings which really added a depth to the MOD...and really was pretty simple to implement I would imagine, although who knows how hard it would be to put it into the launcher.  Personally I think that's what got me stuck in EIR...the fact that I had to actually work toward something, and I would always be on one side (not switch back and forth between axis and allies) until the end of the war. 

Mittens, I love the fact that if your unit (usually your favorite) has a really high vet to it it should have its own "Newspaper" clipping as well, which could add a whole lotta fun to to the game, but dont you think it would be to hard to have exact numbers on how many kills the unit got?

Can anyone recall what happened after each war was finished back in the old EIR?  Would everything just reset or did you have all the same stuff...I thought there was a reset but I could be wrong.

[EIRRMod]

Also this news "winning/losing streak" post needs to come back:

"The 112th Smokaz Riflespam manpower blob has crushed yet another axis fortress! This general is quickly making a name for himself, today earning himself a toenail necklace from the scrubbed remains of Luftwaffe commander Heartmann and Blitzkrieg commander Pak88mm whose forces was quickly routed by this successful tactician. Now on a streak of 7 decisive victories, rumors are spreading among the american troops that Berlin is not that far away!"

"Today another german line defended by 744th Rocksitter Armee and 588th LtApollo fell to the vile allied dogs, slapped into submission by 554th armored mysthalin spam and 45th Mudkipblob.  While the men themselves fought like heroes, faulty command decisions and no backup plans in the end caused a fighting retreat, losing our forces yet another critical territory. The men murmur and cannot sleep at night for the fear of what this madman will send them into next, not having won a single engagement for the last 13 battles."

Fairly easy to implement, I'll see what I can do.

[Groundfire]

Hmmmm...

The thing is that most of everyones ideas are pretty darn good, which in fact is kinda strange.  I remember when we actually did have a little "ticker" that said who was winning the war AND the newspaper clippings which really added a depth to the MOD...and really was pretty simple to implement I would imagine, although who knows how hard it would be to put it into the launcher.  Personally I think that's what got me stuck in EIR...the fact that I had to actually work toward something, and I would always be on one side (not switch back and forth between axis and allies) until the end of the war. 

Mittens, I love the fact that if your unit (usually your favorite) has a really high vet to it it should have its own "Newspaper" clipping as well, which could add a whole lotta fun to to the game, but dont you think it would be to hard to have exact numbers on how many kills the unit got?

Can anyone recall what happened after each war was finished back in the old EIR?  Would everything just reset or did you have all the same stuff...I thought there was a reset but I could be wrong.

As far as I know, its something that we've been working towards, tracking unit kills on a particular unit. It would be no different then tracking a unit's exp., or having a player's k/d ratio displayed on the "intellegence" page of the launcher. The information is there, but the system just needs to be set up.

[MittinsKittens]

Thank you Ground, summed up my thought to the reply perfectly
Would be epic to see it if it makes its way into the launcher some how
Can't see it being much of a step further then getting game K/D ratios :3

[EIRRMod]

As far as I know, its something that we've been working towards, tracking unit kills on a particular unit. It would be no different then tracking a unit's exp., or having a player's k/d ratio displayed on the "intellegence" page of the launcher. The information is there, but the system just needs to be set up.

Unfortunately the game engine doesnt record the unit kills in an accessible area.

[MittinsKittens]

Oh...Damn. So this will be near impossible (if not impossible) to do?
Surely, you could do something about Losing the tanks and stuff though right?
The system will somehow notice that its gone?

[EIRRMod]

Oh...Damn. So this will be near impossible (if not impossible) to do?
Surely, you could do something about Losing the tanks and stuff though right?
The system will somehow notice that its gone?

Veterancy amount really is the only thing it has.

[EIRRMod]

Actually...

There might be a way to track types of kills at least (ie, infantry, vehicle, tank etc) for about 6 types.

Will have to talk to BoB, to test.

[MittinsKittens]

Oh, damn.
I was thinking that the system could notice that the unit has disappeared from the leaderboard (and well, the only way that could of happened is by it dying?)
Although I guess thats a lot of work for not real much gain except for making people more careful about their tanks, people vet hunting to extreme measures, and if your the guy that lost the tank/unit, A little of extra salt in the wounds.

Edit:- Oh freaking sweet. If you find a way to do it, I think we could ALL agree that would be *beep*ing epic.

[salan]

fldash really looked into it a lot and i read a thread about it somewhere once ... in order to track what unit kills you need to run a function for each unit CONSTANTLY.. it would crash most everyone pretty quick

something to that effect anyways.

the game just wasn't programmed to track individual kills in exact information.  I think che might be right that it tracks infantry kills/armor kills whatever for each unit, its displayed in game... but I remember someone saying no one had figured out how to access that yet.

[Nevyen]

Im going to agree with salan,

I love EIR, infact today I was again talking it up at a local gaming tournament to a bunch of COH players.  What I cant stomach anymore is the rebuild after a reset.  Its just to much time and effort. 

Even if there has not been a reset recently, Im not putting in approx 40 hours- average out game times over say 60 games,  to reset and only really get maybe 4-6 games in with the finished product only to start again. 


Yes the journey is important but the end is nice as well!


More vet levels,  vet bonuses and equipment rewards, im sure i posted an idea about something like that up in the dev forums somewhere. 

Great to see positive discussion as well guys.

[Unkn0wn]

Honestly though, if we remove the grind almost entirely like we are planning to, there won't be as much 'grief' when your companies get reset. Resets are currently only really problematic because you have to put so much time in getting your company to a high level. With that grind gone, resets wouldn't even be a big deal anymore. To soften up the pain, we could even let users transfer over one vet unit from last war.


Here's how I would personally see it:

- Player company progress is dependant on war state, the longer the war, the higher everyone's companies. (Doctrines/RBs)
This is actually already planned last time I checked, everyone is more or less at the same level. With this, it also really doesn't matter any more that doctrines are powerful as everyone will be at the same tier, just need to make sure they are FUN and balanced.

- There's a sidegrind where for every (few) game(s) you play you receive a minor amount of additional PPs or other 'rewards'.  At worst this could lead to one player being ahead one tier over his peers, either in resources or in doctrine or whatever, he'd have put a lot of games in to deserve that though, with the benefit only being marginal. This is to prevent playing games from feeling 'moot' in terms of personal gain. (I'm not convinced veterancy alone would be good enough)

- Combined with the sidegrind, you'd have an advanced, harder, veterancy system where all vet is gained in game and you have 5 or more vet levels. Later vet levels don't really give you any combat bonuses any more but the bragging rights that come with it are enough to make it worthwhile.

- Availability for elite units is partially tied to the warmap. This means that certain 'events' on the warmap could trigger your team to run out of Tigers, pershings and whatever. In addition, large amount of elite unit losses would also temporarily drain out the availability pool for everyone until new recruits are coming in. (Training/construction could be sped up with a 'join' PP investment, if enough commanders chip in the availability recharge is sped up)

On a company level you'd still have a pool system to keep companies in check. The pools themselves could also be tied to warmap progress, with pool bonuses being granted as rewards or based on warmap events


Then add to that a ton of persistency warmap related features (with commander panels, gaining ranks, automatch, etc)... You get my point


A lot of this can already be achieved with some coding reworks and the use of 'game masters' who have control over some basic variables. Then later on it could be automated more to the point where 'gamemasters' are no longer needed.