Reasons why EIR is declining in popularity.

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[Rocksitter]

And let's not forget all those small tidbits that made you feel enthralled within a war effort. The after-action reports of "the 105th Pwners and the 101 Doggy-bags just completely kicked the living shit out of the german 74th Rocksitters and 253rd Fatsos". It gave you a sense of accomplishment. You would earn your name, and it would be awesome to have recognition for it.

 Myst leave me out of your fantasy....

[Nevyen]

Ive been with this mod for over 3 years now.  In the last 6 months Ive basically taken leave of the Mod, for what ever reason and what ever drama that encompassed it in the last 22 months since Che picked up the reins it dosnt really matter.

What has mattered is the passion and commitment that has been displayed by the community.  People like myself and Salan, who walked away but are drawn back even if just to troll the forums and de-rail threads, have supported and cared about this mod for a very long time.

They may say they dont care, or that this is parting shot before they storm off in a huff, but the reality is they do care.

Whats more popular or not, the mod has survived.  One thing I would say also is this,  the title of this post is not the right discussion.  Worrying about being "popular" or not for a community based mod is the self defeating argument.

"We need to be popular so we make changes, Oh we are not popular enough so we need to do x or y."

To those that It matters to, it has nothing to do with popularity, it has to do with Gameplay(balance), Content and Community in my opinion.  

It really does not matter if OMG is more "popular" or if we are in decline, or if FOF is at the edge of innovation.  Its about the credability of the content and stability of the gameplay.

The strength of the mod has been the basics, it always has been.  The attraction was always in the ingame experiance, and how strong the actual balance was and well coded and effective the modification was.

The real hurt that this mod has suffered is the RGD and coding.  Che has done an amazing job in revolutionising the launcher and adding external content.  But in soild and lengthy reflection the way patches where released in say the last 6 - 8 months, the lack of testing. The constant resets.  The repetition of re-building again and again and again companies from scratch due to simple errors that could have been picked up in better testing, wore me out, and probably wore out the rest of the community.

The mod has never solved the issue of "stacking",  never solved the problem faced by the casual gamer nor the demands of the hardcore gamer, becasue of "popularity" and the drive to that.

I was part of the dev, so maybe I could have done more, maybe we could have done things better.  But at the end of the day it is what it is.

I think personally Ak's post represents sour grapes more than anything else, "we arnt popular because you didnt use my ideas" is what is screaming from that post.  

I would suggest that maybe the community the longer term supporters and the dev team in play, look at how we get back to what made this mod great but retain the passion and innovation of the last 22 months.  

The warmap represents a clear vision for where this mod is going, I dont agree with short term campaigns but thats me.

I think the RGD editing needs better attention and while im not an RGD editor and maybe its easier said than done, I think it really needs to be tighter.  

And the Core the reason EIR  was great and stood out was its solid execution in game. I think that is where it has lost its way, maybe in a desire to keep pace, but maybe trying to keep pace for the wrong reason.


As always Nev.

[Demon767]

cant the devs just make up and have eir babies?

[VERTIGGO]

First of all, I'm not so sure EIRR is "going downhill" or whatever. There seems to be a similar average amount of players online now to when I was on years ago.

I do believe more "groundbreaking" dynamics are required. The most important improvement we need at the moment is an effective campaign dynamic, i.e. warmap "stuff". At the moment, persistence is well implemented and a sense of greater purpose is not. However, it is not "bull" that maintaining as much of Relic's unit balance is very helpful for transitioning players. Think Panzerkrieg and how frustrating it is to relearn a mere 6 units' characteristics. Panthers that are weaker than Shermans, etc.

Also, had EIRR completely re-written the stats book on Relic's units, not only would it have taken thousands more hours of dev time to produce, it's introduction would have been shoddy at best, and it would not have attracted even the player base it has now. It took Relic's large, professional team years to produce the fine tuning they did, and it makes little sense to toss that investment in the bin.

In the end, however, the number one reason I will continue to play this mod is the lack of resource/base management and fixed company strength. It is the most satisfying mode of delivering the Company of Heroes battle experience, regardless of veterancy implementation, persistence, or where the balance ends up.

There's two more reasons why EiR is declining.

They both have parachutes.

I lol'd.

[tankk]

When is RCA coming?
I've been waiting since the last reset, had a lvl 9 company then, and working towards a lvl 9 now!

In the end, however, the number one reason I will continue to play this mod is the lack of resource/base management and fixed company strength. It is the most satisfying mode of delivering the Company of Heroes battle experience, regardless of veterancy implementation, persistence, or where the balance ends up.

This sums up my thoughts exactly. This mod's strength is the large amount of teamwork and strategy it takes to accomplish a victory against any enemy, and the satisfaction you get from winning an EIRR game is more than any other game i've ever played.

[Killer344]

When is RCA coming?
I've been waiting since the last reset, had a lvl 9 company then, and working towards a lvl 9 now!

This sums up my thoughts exactly. This mod's strength is the large amount of teamwork and strategy it takes to accomplish a victory against any enemy, and the satisfaction you get from winning an EIRR game is more than any other game i've ever played.

Hai spinn72.

[tankk]

Sup, I've got accounts on 2 different comps, around 5 EIRR accounts in total, so don't be mean if I accidentally post on one of my other 4!

[Smokaz]

@ Nevyen

I completely agree with your thoughts about the doctrine/rgd. I've felt like several times that RGD guys get to do whatever they want, or rather, that there has occurred at least some slips where rgd/balance/doctrine stuff has gone in without any public or semi-public discussion, where it applies. One thing that comes to mind, is airborne doctrine, that was actually patched into the RGDs before the draft from what I at least experienced, before it was ever finalized, given the final go, discussion had ended, etc. Then you had luft which had a draft which was accepted semi-publicly and then changed in many ways upon implementation.

Worst part of it is, even though its irrelevant because we look forward, was that a lot of moaning was put forth from several people who's opinion at least should have been lent some minor credibility was just overlooked. The easy company thing was just bat shit crazy from day 1 of its birth.

The scar coding ofc has been without noticeable fail because its Eirrmod that does it and he is a professional who follows a plan he lays out beforehand, I believe. A PLAN OF CAKES! But then he gets hurt in combat playing hockey or something..

Although community discussion and arguing about stuff in the micro-perspective can be lengthy and frustrating, its necessary to have broad testing of stuff like completely changing a unit or doctrine T4's, and that means that bob or gamesguy cant just play a few games each other with say easy company or a completely changed stuart/stag etc etc and then go "ok its all nice" because that is a very narrow discussion and testing. I'm sure people see my point without getting personal.

[Grundwaffe]

So yeah, nevyen shouted alot of the things i've wanted to say for a long time. lol.

[EIRRMod]

The scar coding ofc has been without noticeable fail because its Eirrmod that does it and he is a professional who follows a plan he lays out beforehand, I believe. A PLAN OF CAKES! But then he gets hurt in combat playing hockey or something..

It is a plan of cakes.

Somehow it all makes sense in my head - and comes out as cool stuff.

[Unkn0wn]

I disagree with the motion that EIR has ever needed new fancy units or abilities to survive, or even to provide its playerbase with a lasting, addicting, experience. Those things are novelties at best and novelties, while useful in drawing new players, don't keep a mod alive in the long run.

If anything, EIR's shortcoming is that it has still not delivered a core feature that players were promised from day 1, the experience that many players here are after and that would draw in many more if it was ever implemented. I'm talking about a fully functional campaign of course. We've come far enough with gameplay, we have all the core gameplay features in place, and while doctrines are still in need of finetuning, the game is relatively balanced. It's a shame it took this long and it's a shame that gameplay finalisation was always chosen over warmap implementation but either way, now is definitely a good time to make things right.

A warmap, unlike new units and new abilities, is much more than just a "novelty" feature. It is supposed to truly bring the game to a new level where the games played in COH only become a small part of the total experience. More like the 'Total War' campaigns as you will. There's a huge interest for these types of 'campaign' experiences, not just in this mod and this game but in the gaming community as a whole. Enough to outlive the original COH and enough to draw in flocks of new, and old, players.

I'm not saying more patches, more communication and new doctrine stuff aren't going to give our playerbase a boost, but those really all just short-term pay-offs. If you really want to look at long term survival, with a steady and significantly large playerbase, it's time to finally implement the campaign chapter of this mod. And obviously these need to be combined with a proper website, more tutorials, better advertisement, more communication and the like, but that only needs to be taken care of when the campaign is  implemented in the first place.

So before you look at spending time on reworking the doctrines AGAIN, reworking the vet system AGAIN, adding in some new fancy units and abilities, etc. you should really stop and think for a moment and realise that all that time could be spent on the war campaign which, when done properly, will have a much better payoff than any other developments.

P.S I'm still convinced there needs to be at least a minimum (side)grind to give players a sense of achievement and a reward to continue playing

[Unkn0wn]

Also, to further my point.

A lot of people here are claiming that more patches, news updates & progress in general would keep our playerbase at its peak.
The question we need to ask ourselves here though is WHY, why do our player base numbers fall so significantly in periods of less development? Our ingame COH gameplay is pretty much finalised, and it's pretty solid at that. Players come and go, no doubt, but it's peculiar that people get bored of this game when it doesn't get updated for a long period of time.

Did everyone get bored of regular COH because it didn't get updated? Do people get bored of other multiplayer games when they don't get updated now and then? I don't think so. Personally I'm of the opinion there are two factors responsible for this.
First, there's obviously the fact that we are 'just' a mod, smaller playerbase, smaller influx of new players, our complexity, lack of advertisement, and all that jazz. This is a major factor that is well know but it's certainly not the only one.

The second factor in my opinion is our product itself. It's not good enough, or it's missing something anyway... If it was fine as is, people would keep playing it and the player numbers would not dwindle rapidly the moment development ceases. The mere fact that many people get bored of the game simply because it is no longer receiving any updates is a BIG indicator that people are still expecting further updates to take place and truly believe the game is in need of those updates to become better.

[Ununoctium]

"Johnson, I want that 30 page in depth report by 10:00pm or you're fired!"
"I'll get right on it sir!"
Johnson then heads down to the EiR forums and saves his job.

Simple consensus:
EiR+new update = temporary increase in EiR players
EiR+new feature = permanent increase in EiR players
OMG + tactical nuke = permanent increase in EiR players

[Mister Schmidt]

In terms of advertisement, Groundfire has already got that down to a tee, and don't forget that when warmap comes out he and I were also planning on writing into the PC Gamer mags for our respective countries, and if it gets published I GUARANTEE we will get a MASSIVE boost in players, so popularity will definately increase. We're just waiting on the warmap tbh. Don't forget the reason it's not so popular atm is becase of summer holidays and all that.

[Groundfire]

In terms of advertisement, Groundfire has already got that down to a tee, and don't forget that when warmap comes out he and I were also planning on writing into the PC Gamer mags for our respective countries, and if it gets published I GUARANTEE we will get a MASSIVE boost in players, so popularity will definately increase. We're just waiting on the warmap tbh. Don't forget the reason it's not so popular atm is becase of summer holidays and all that.

I can always use help tho.

Oh, and i think on the US side of things, we were gonna have Sach run by the PCgamer office and deliver a letter in person. That might have more punch to it. lol

but yeah, just awaitin on the warmap.

[Nimitz]

What you needed was a system which would quickly pair players against each other. The Nr. 1 reason people don't spend as much time playing EiRR as they could is because it takes so long to get a game.

I'm sure all of you guys know what I'm talking about when I say how frustrating it is to have a 2v2 up with one guy missing and not one out of the 20 other people in the launcher can/will join.

[Pak88mm]

it just real real real stale. when i first joined like mysth said it was just crazy companies with a purpose. airborne was pure airborne inf was pure rangers and rifles armor was just that armor and tons of it. insanely intense games and extremely competitive aspect is what kept hooked me in. later the game got more ambitious by allowing every company to be really just a mash up and random gibberish. it was still fun but now everything became less competitive and you didnt really feel attached to your co as much as you. it just started to run dry honestly and not fun anymore. I uninstalled CoH last week after the game was just not fun anymore. The balance issues with CoH are just way to out of control to even enjoy the game. I do agree that yeah....we really needed to move away from CoH completely

[Heartmann]

Well almost everyone has had an opinion waiting for Winds post, as always he seems to have something to say, so i was surprised when he there was none ^^

As for myself well, There is imo a stagnation, but not a decline. A lot has to do with psychology, towards achievement of players and devs. What can be done, what can change, what can I/we gain by killing Smokaz and Evils mega coys, what can we loose??

Get in the heads of the people you want to reach and remove their brains with an ice-cream scoop.
If there is anything i can do ill help, i love this mod, i have been playing and giving what i can to this mod the last year and a half. The thing i find my self wanting more is a story, with heroes and villains or rather with badass Elit Luffwaffe VS the evil fat American Airborne (Im not being biased am I?)

By this i mean, ofc the war map would be a huge boon, to see active progress of ones actions is one of the best aphrodisiacs known to man, in other words present bread to the masses and they will follow.

Spec the info/news where it says The 56Th British inf division (WindcriesMary) accompanied by the 3rd allied tank battalion(o4b) where today overrun by surprise ambush attacks from the 32nd lufftwaffe (Heartman) and the 7th PnzAbitielung (0Ledgend0) by the french town of Neunen. Early reports suggest it was a fierce battle coupled with hard resistance offered from the English tommies supported well by the allied tanks, but the harsh and lightning attack of the Axis forces where to great for the combined English and American forces.

Thats something that would keep me playing (Spec if I was ever able to beat Wind >P )

Anyway Im at the moment on vaca, ill be back in couple of days to murder you al ^^

[Smokaz]

Also this news "winning/losing streak" post needs to come back:

"The 112th Smokaz Riflespam manpower blob has crushed yet another axis fortress! This general is quickly making a name for himself, today earning himself a toenail necklace from the scrubbed remains of Luftwaffe commander Heartmann and Blitzkrieg commander Pak88mm whose forces was quickly routed by this successful tactician. Now on a streak of 7 decisive victories, rumors are spreading among the american troops that Berlin is not that far away!"

"Today another german line defended by 744th Rocksitter Armee and 588th LtApollo fell to the vile allied dogs, slapped into submission by 554th armored mysthalin spam and 45th Mudkipblob.  While the men themselves fought like heroes, faulty command decisions and no backup plans in the end caused a fighting retreat, losing our forces yet another critical territory. The men murmur and cannot sleep at night for the fear of what this madman will send them into next, not having won a single engagement for the last 13 battles."

[salan]

unknowns pretty good with his post there, myself unknown when I play a MMO style game, I keep what I gain.  I still have a world of warcraft account that I haven't played in over a year and a half.  But I still have my character on it.  It doesn't get reset every few months in order for me to start over again.

and honestly if blizzard DID restart itself every few months, they would see the same problem eir is with their lack of players WILLING to play when it stagnates.

we are being forced to play the companies from scratch over and over, this isn't VCOH, and honestly THAT is what stops me personally from playing the game I love the most.  I have NO interest in going through the grind AGAIN, and AGAIN with the SAME companies that in any other mmo experience I would have kept for my hard work.  So when there are no additional patches, what is there new for me to do?

The war shouldn't force company resets anymore.  Hopefully once a war is included in the gameplay the companies themselves will never be reset again.  Although Tym brought up another point about how old eir never stopped growing, that could be the only other issue with the current system.  Companies no longer gain anything but Vet once they hit level 9.. but with the war you have a reason to play it still.

war ends?  So you have a whack of level 9 people killing each other from the start of the next one on.  I don't know if it would work or not, or if the war would be enough reason to 'restart, AGAIN'  but its the constant loss of time in a persistent game that is the issue.  I don't mind starting from scratch in Vcoh or FOF because I gain the end game every 30 mins...