Pak 36- working as intended?

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[Mysthalin]

too bad the 36mm defo drives around cloaked when re-crewed by my volks, at least.

[winisez]

This unlock is at the same level as a Tiger or pershing, above calliopes. - what does it do that an mg42 doesnt do cheaper? and better? kill jeeps?. Point is it cant stop a rush, like an mg42 can- It could snipe a few people at range, if it could A) hit at long range and B) if people stood at the edge of its range and did nothing. If it needs to be made more expensive to be better then so be it, at least it will be worth bringing in its own right then, rather than a gimmicky overlapping same role lesser mg42.

[Grenadier1945]

Well
I know for damn sure it evaporates rifles and rangers. Maybe you got some bad rolls?

I think you guys are both essentially right. The elevation issue he brought up earlier is the reason. I've had it attacking ground one time and every single shell landed half-way to the target, because of a small bump. It's a good weapon in the right situation, but the elevation/scatter issue completely breaks it under the right circumstances.

[Spartan_Marine88]

dude, whats people wanting all this cloaking shit, we have enough of it, starting to be star trek with birds of prey and shit.

Its really not that had to camo a atg, or infantry or even a bunker or emplacements

The russians were even known to do it with airfields (they called it maskirovka)

Heck with some time to prepare for an attack, the Germans could even do it with Tigers

[winisez]

Does anyone know how to make it so the damn thing doesnt hit the ground so much? is there a small projectile model change or something that would work?

[Tymathee]

I only have two pak 36's in my company and one is vet 3 and one vet 2 so they're highly survivable and they kill. I really like them and if you use them right, you can keep one on the field for a long time if there's no artillery around lol.

But here's the thing, just like a lot of high tier units, the better the support you have around it, the better it performs, if you have a 36 + pak38 together, it'll prety much rape anything that comes it's wa.

People also miss out on the fact that it IS a flak gun, so it can also shoot at airborne coming down and with it being cloaked it can surprise even the most prudent AB commander.

Also, the closer infantry are to it, the more accuracy it has and if you are moving the gun, it can fire away right after you deploy it so it can get right back in the action.

another way to use it is in conjuction with an hmg, cloak the 36, put it on holdfire, let the hmg suppress, fire away with the 36, infantry are toast.

Also cuz it has the Flak gun, it can take on light vehicles, i took a stag down half health with one.

all in all I love the little gun, much more so than the 280mm neb even when it was OP i chose the 36 over the 280

[winisez]

I saw a staghound bounce 4 shots, drive behind it and kill the crew. its an ostwind gun, its not gonna damage an m8 much, let alone a stag. Even halftracks are gonna take 5-6 shots to get damage significantly.

From what I can tell its essentially entirley anti infantry, which is absoloutly fine, just wish it did its job a bit better.

[Mysthalin]

Does anyone know how to make it so the damn thing doesnt hit the ground so much? is there a small projectile model change or something that would work?

The 280 suffers the same problem, due to not actually ever rolling a hit or miss roll versus anything it fires at - and it'll hit any irregularity in the terrain.
Just put them on at least a little elevation, and it'll start faring a LOT better.

[winisez]

I understand terrain being a big part of coh, and needing to adapt your tactics accordingly, but not to the point where something becomes nearly useless because some mapper decided it would be cool to have slightly bumpy ground.

[Tymathee]

then move it to where it's not so bumpy, same thing happens with other weapons and you compensate.

trust its' a very good weapon, i should make a game with me playing it i used it against a good couple of players and it pretty much helped me win the game against a bunch of tommy's and airborne. All i did was support it well. 2x shcrecks with it help to keep light vehicles from getting in behind it and some other form of AI against infantry, and let the long range do it's thing.

[Tymathee]

to answer the question, yes it's working as intended.

[winisez]

Didnt realised you designed it, thats good to know. What other weapon do you need to compensate for to such a degree btw?

[Mysthalin]

Whatever the Pak-36 can do - an HMG42 can do better. For cheaper and less popcap.

And no, the Pak-36 is in no way "capable" versus light vehicles.

[AmPM]

Didnt realised you designed it, thats good to know. What other weapon do you need to compensate for to such a degree btw?

Schreks, tanks, 88, anything that fires a projectile can hit the ground if there is a hill in the way. I mean, how outrageous that you would actually need to consider the terrain where you fight! That would require some forethought and tactics!

[Mysthalin]

Shreks, Tanks and 88s all have their weapons positioned conveniently higher than the 0.2metre height of the Pak 36. Tanks and 88s also happen to have an accuracy of somewhat better than 0.35 at long range, and they don't have a 0.75 modifier versus all of their targets.
All 3 of those weapons also have the luxury of actually clipping with the vast majority of their intended targets, unlike the Pak 36 - which's shells would rely entirely on splash damage(with a very low splash radius) to deal damage, even if the shell managed to fly in the direction of the enemy after rolling a miss.

[Tymathee]

Shreks, Tanks and 88s all have their weapons positioned conveniently higher than the 0.2metre height of the Pak 36. Tanks and 88s also happen to have an accuracy of somewhat better than 0.35 at long range, and they don't have a 0.75 modifier versus all of their targets.
All 3 of those weapons also have the luxury of actually clipping with the vast majority of their intended targets, unlike the Pak 36 - which's shells would rely entirely on splash damage(with a very low splash radius) to deal damage, even if the shell managed to fly in the direction of the enemy after rolling a miss.

still, its' meant as a support weapon, which means it can't operate on its own, just like a pak. the pak 36 is best on roads an yway so u can catch them in red cover, if u know the accuracy sux, then u dont put it somewhere where it will fire at people that will be in yellow or green cover.

oh and this thing freakin rox vs targets in buildings, great clearer.

[RoyalHants]

Last game i managed to get my hands on one it dispersed allmost all of the axisis atepts to retake one of ther 88s its amazingly powerfull and threatning

[Mysthalin]

still, its' meant as a support weapon

Anti-infantry support weapons that are far more effective at said role :
MG42

the pak 36 is best on roads an yway so u can catch them in red cover,

Because good players consistently make every attempt to get on red cover with their infantry.

if u know the accuracy sux, then u dont put it somewhere where it will fire at people that will be in yellow or green cover.

Nobody even mentioned yellow or green cover. We're talking about units standing in the open.

oh and this thing freakin rox vs targets in buildings, great clearer.

I was not aware the 0.25 acc mod this weapon has versus garrison cover is so beneficial.

[Tymathee]

Lol myst come on u should know better, the thing has burst, so when it hits a house, eevn if it doesn't hit the unit directly it will still damage it, just like a nade or artillery or a tank hitting said house and with its rapid fire, it will hit the unit every time either directly or with burst, game play > stats.

I had a unit in a building and a capped 36 was firing at it and i didn't get it out just so i could see what would happen and it took damage with every shot, so u can't tell me that its not the game, and that they're not good units I use them all the time, are hmgs better in some ways yes, but the pak 36 has longer range, kills rather than suppresses and when it hits a crewed weapon (mortar/hmg) it attacks not just the infantry but the gun itself which i find rather useful.

[winisez]

Ill be making a video of it in my last 2 games tomorrow, since some people have clearly already decided what to believe before they even read what is written.

Tym the point myst is trying to make, and one I agree with is that an mg42 does everything the pak36 does, for 2 less pop, 70 less mp and 40 less munitions, and doesnt take a t3 unlock. One of the video's ill be making will demosntrate the awesome anti light vehicle potential of this weapon, doing about 25% damage to a bren carrier in 3-4 shots- a truely devestating weapon indeed.  The one exception to this is touched on by you in,  vs support weapons, I totaly agree- if anything this thing is 2nd only to a mortar and sniper at killing support weapons, its great at it.

I like to think I know what im talking about considering the pak 36, simply becuase I use more of them than Tym, Brn and Grenadier1945, combined. But I guess experience counts for nothing, hence the video's coming tmr.