Doctrine Draft Discussion

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[Tymathee]

Updated with next 4.

Link to RAR with all 8

First Four
Defensive
Armor
Artillery
Luftwaffe

Second Four
Blitzkreig
Infantry
Scorched Earth
Commandos

Last Four
Terror
Airborne
Engineers
Tank Hunters

[Groundfire]

I think that when you combine Luft "defensive positions" and "counter measures", whirblewind Lockdown will get alittle too silly vs. elite infantry.

I dont have corsix on me, but under lockdown, +25% base acc. plus an additional 20% recieved accuracy vs. airborne, commandos, and rangers(incomming change) seems like a little bit excessive.

If there are any accuracy vet bonuses stacking ontop of these 2 doctrines, it would be too over the top for my taste.

There should be a cooldown time to get into/out of lockdown otherwise we'll just have a problem similar to what churchills and hulldown are doing now.

Drive in, Lock down, kill everything then run away. There should be some buffer time to get away or take out the threat with some heavy AT.

[Firesparks]

precision ammunition : mortar, 95mm cromwell +25% accuacy

artillery shell ignore accuracy on travel path. This wouldn't benefit the Mortar or the 95mm cromwell.

next gen vehicle:
all those bonus looks a bit too much -20% recieve damage, +20% speed, and -20% reload time?

[Groundfire]

precision ammunition : mortar, 95mm cromwell +25% accuacy

artillery shell ignore accuracy on travel path. This wouldn't benefit the Mortar or the 95mm cromwell.

Doesnt this effect the AoE accuracy of the round's explosion?

[Speigass]

Artilery T4 Marksman training is adding +5 range to Lee, brens, riflenades? Isnt it against the rule not to mess with range on mobile non arty units?

Immproved flamer in armor tree is able to damage vechicles? What penetration it does?

[Firesparks]

Doesnt this effect the AoE accuracy of the round's explosion?

I still don't quite completely understand how the accuacy affect the AOE. None of the mortar ever seems to have "dubs" in all the times I play. If accuracy does affect AOE then 75% of the 81mm's round would have been dubs. 

[Heartmann]

HEARTMANN CONDONES THIS!!! *drooling*

[Tymathee]

I still don't quite completely understand how the accuacy affect the AOE. None of the mortar ever seems to have "dubs" in all the times I play. If accuracy does affect AOE then 75% of the 81mm's round would have been dubs. 

it affects the randomness. So if something is standing still, there will be a higher chance of it hitting, so this would make the mortar and 95mm cromwell really good versus infantry in buildings and stationary targets but possibly worse against moving targets because an inaccurate artillery would benefit firing against a moving targe

[Firesparks]

it affects the randomness. So if something is standing still, there will be a higher chance of it hitting, so this would make the mortar and 95mm cromwell really good versus infantry in buildings and stationary targets but possibly worse against moving targets because an inaccurate artillery would benefit firing against a moving targe

....

what? That reads like mumble to me. We're talking about the shell's AOE.

[bbsmith]

Defensive - Buffing the Flak 88's health won't really matter because the biggest issue with Flak's is being decrewed, not destroyed. Giving the crew Elite Armor would be much more helpful. By giving it more health, it'd be allowing the enemy a much higher chance of stealing it.

You do know that a Flak 88 counts as a Teamed Weapon? Which means it will get Elite Armor.

Armor - Stolen Intel is basically a rip off of an RCA ability on the same tier. Maybe some sort of awareness thing like the Tank Hunters have except that it detects weapon teams, so you can see all hmgs, mortars, paks and even flaks on the field. Another idea would be to bring back the WP stun that the t-17 had, give it to jeeps and make it like 100 mu and put it on uses.

The original Armor recon ability was going to do something along the lines of spawn some sort of Jeep and have it scout or something like a recon run but on the ground. I dropped it because I didn't feel like doing it. No stun abilities.

RCA - AS much as I love RCA...Suppression Training may be a bit OP but of course i'd have to see it in battle so i don't know but suppression on brens just sounds too awesome. Heh, nice to see one of my RCA ideas get in too, Grenade Volley ftw

That's a typo, only the Bren MMG carrier gets suppression fire.
And the Grenade T3 would probably give normal Grenades purchasable for Tommies instead of Assault Grenades.

Luft - No problems here, i think this is largely problem free imo.

Yay

[bbsmith]

Artilery T4 Marksman training is adding +5 range to Lee, brens, riflenades? Isnt it against the rule not to mess with range on mobile non arty units?

The main problem with range increases were from Tanks and Airborne. The +5 Range wont really be game breaking in this instance. Unlike the old range increase abilities it wont increase the range of picked up weapons so you wont have 45 Range Panzershrecks on Tommies or anything.

There are a few reasons reason why extra range on rifles is more reasonable than extra range on Tanks.
1.You can't kite with the rifles because they only really fire forward on the move.
2.You can't do Infantry AT hit and runs like (Airborne with the Airborne Elite T4)
3.Lee Enfields are wildly inaccurate at long range.

The +5 range on Brens will just bring it up to the 40 Range that the LMG42 has.
The +5 range on Rifle Grenades is pretty good.

Immproved flamer in armor tree is able to damage vechicles? What penetration it does?

http://picly.us/coh/Weapon_M2_Flamethrower.html
Look at the target tables. The damage it does will just be improved upon from that.

[bbsmith]

I think that when you combine Luft "defensive positions" and "counter measures", whirblewind Lockdown will get alittle too silly vs. elite infantry.

I dont have corsix on me, but under lockdown, +25% base acc. plus an additional 20% recieved accuracy vs. airborne, commandos, and rangers(incomming change) seems like a little bit excessive.

If there are any accuracy vet bonuses stacking ontop of these 2 doctrines, it would be too over the top for my taste.

There should be a cooldown time to get into/out of lockdown otherwise we'll just have a problem similar to what churchills and hulldown are doing now.

Drive in, Lock down, kill everything then run away. There should be some buffer time to get away or take out the threat with some heavy AT.

Of course there's a lockdown time for the Wirbelwind. It was going to be 5s/5s because the Lockdown actually puts it close to a Flakvierling in DPS.

With both Lockdown and Defensive Positions The wirbelwind will do.
To Airborne
Long Range: 35% Accuracy to 52% Accuracy
Short/Medium Range: 50% Accuracy to 75% Accuracy

To Rangers/Commandos
Long Range: 26% Accuracy to 39% Accuracy
Short/Medium Range: 37% Accuracy to 56% Accuracy

[Groundfire]

Fair enough, thanks for the clarification Bob! 

[Tymathee]

You do know that a Flak 88 counts as a Teamed Weapon? Which means it will get Elite Armor.

I wasn't sure, so that's cool, putting both together is real nice.

The original Armor recon ability was going to do something along the lines of spawn some sort of Jeep and have it scout or something like a recon run but on the ground. I dropped it because I didn't feel like doing it. No stun abilities.

Aww no stun meh just an idea. But u didn't say what u thought about the team weapon awareness, i think that would really benefit Armor well. You could only see hmgs, mortars, paks and 88's.

That's a typo, only the Bren MMG carrier gets suppression fire.
And the Grenade T3 would probably give normal Grenades purchasable for Tommies instead of Assault Grenades.
Yay

Oh okay, i like idea for the mmg carrier, especially since i use quite a few of them. As for the grenade t3, i was talking about the rifle grenade volley

[Speigass]

Luftwaffe logistics line is a bit weird... T4 buffs both unit unlocks and offmaps. T3 buffs upgrade unlocks. So in the end u are using only half of buffs because u can not unlock units+offfmaps+upgrades. That makes this tree much weaker than other 2. T3 and T4 itself are not bad, but being in the same line isn't good.

I am also curious about 95mm cromwell, is it like StuH? or AVRE? or Priest? or Mortar halftrack?

[Tymathee]

95mm is like a stuh on a cromwell, nuff said to teh awesomenss

[Wolster]

Armour Doctrine

The Pershing

When i look at the armour doctrine im always worried about how many buffs can be landed on this axis problem causing unit, & once again a fully vetted one of these with a good combination of Doctrine buffs is going to be a complete nightmare for all Whermacht to defeat.

Please bear in mind that whilst axis players have access to a miriad of wonderful tanks, one long range sticky from a crappy vet 2 rifle squad makes them next to worthless, the americans have no such issues & vet 3 Pershings are getting ridiculously common, because we have no cheap immobalizer, (bring back the engine damage fausts to make things more even) or more reasonablely get rid of the long range stickies altogether so our Panthers can have a decent shot at taking down one of these mofos.

Let the slating begin, from the usual l2p arses.

[lazuka12]

If you have panther you should try to keep distance to infranty. Especially if you know they could damage your engine or immobilize or button you.

[3rdCondor]

Use a bike and a panther together. If u max range, u will succeed.

[Spartan_Marine88]

95mm is like a stuh on a cromwell, nuff said to teh awesomenss

No flank speed though

Armour Doctrine

The Pershing


Please bear in mind that whilst axis players have access to a miriad of wonderful tanks, one long range sticky from a crappy vet 2 rifle squad makes them next to worthless, the americans have no such issues & vet 3 Pershings are getting ridiculously common

there are only 7 vet 3 Pershings in the game atm

to the hmm 12 vet 3 Tigers

Lets face it, Axis tanks just rip up everything allied

As soon as something comes that even appears to be an equalizer, they just cry OP allied stuff gets nerfed Axis get another Direct Fire Nebel