The case for AB rifles?

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[bbsmith]

The whole point of Airborne Infantry was to have them buffed by the Airborne T4s. Airborne has the capability to be a small more Elite company with all around better units. (Improved Riflemen, MGs, ATGs, Mortar, Sniper)

[rifle87654]

The whole point of Airborne Infantry was to have them buffed by the Airborne T4s. Airborne has the capability to be a small more Elite company with all around better units. (Improved Riflemen, MGs, ATGs, Mortar, Sniper)

+1

[NightRain]

The whole point of Airborne Infantry was to have them buffed by the Airborne T4s. Airborne has the capability to be a small more Elite company with all around better units. (Improved Riflemen, MGs, ATGs, Mortar, Sniper)

Why can't commandos enjoy this kind of a buff?

They srsly need to come with Rifles only, put it on a test or make a Public Question of it, see how many would say "WE WANT RIFLE MANDOS!"

[Demon767]

Why can't commandos enjoy this kind of a buff?

They srsly need to come with Rifles only, put it on a test or make a Public Question of it, see how many would say "WE WANT RIFLE MANDOS!"

-1

[tank130]

I think the problem with Airborne rifles is not just the rifles. It is the combination of rifles and fire up that makes it blob worthy.
Having an AI ability is great and all, but then it it used with fire up to over run HMG cover and or take out AT and then the RR's roll in.

While this is a great tactic, it should not be performed by one unit. The combination of rifles and fire up is the problem, thus creating blobs. Remove one ability or the other will make this unit balanced.

[Illegal_Carrot]

I understand and appreciate the devs willingness and commitment to try new tings, but sometimes it seems like they have the senses of a six year old child. Everything's gotta be BETTER and FASTER and MORE EXPLOSIONS. Suddenly, AB are getting units and buffs which improve their AI capabilities (which they shouldn't be getting because a) AI is AB's one flaw. They're fast, tough, and have great AT. They're supposed to lack a 'real' AB AI unit and b) the Allies have plenty of AI units to begin with)

And look at the AB doctrine now. It's simply the most OP thing I've seen in EiRR, ever. Now we've gotta give AB a counter to everything, and give them abilities that belong to entirely different doctrines and/or factions and enough HP to eat a tank shell to the face and keep on going. They literally have an I WIN button for every situation. It's fucking ridiculous, and it's only getting worse and worse.

The Devs have said so many times that they want to step away from huge, game-changing buffs and units, and that they want EiR to be more about strategy and tactics. Hell, it's why so many off-maps were removed or nerfed a while back; the entire game had become about dropping artillery on your opponent, rather than actually playing the game. Now it's happening again, this time with units (AB Rifles in this case).

Who approved the current AB doctrine? Who thought it was actually a good idea? What about the doctrines in the public doctrine draft thread?

EiR's taken a a turn for the worse and for every good decision made, there seems to be several bad ones. It's a trend that's been going on for a while, but what worries me is that it shows no sign of stopping. And it seems to me that a very select group of people make the decisions (the devs, of course), but they seem to have no interest in making actual worthwhile decisions, or listening to the community much at all.

[Mgallun74]

I don't see why the EiRR team has gotten the tendency to try and buff a special unit so, so that its weaknesses are gone.

Airborne has gotten AR w/ BARs to make up for the weak AI of Airborne RRs (NOT of the doc because that ain't true).

Tank reapers buffing ATGs to be even stronger is fine, but we're buffing their role (AT) here, and that's okay, unlike with Rangers which can then with tank reapers counter everything on the field, although their original purpose was AI and light AT.

I don't think it's OP, just think it's wrong to try and give 1 or 2 units counters to everything.
+1

has nothing to do with the BAR alone.. its when you have a person who runs around 3 Bars AB and 3 RR AB... its the blob effect that makes it hard to deal with, if you play against a AB player who may only have 3 or 4 total AB squads on at one time its not hard to counter, its when you have 6 or more at once, i see it wit h german players too, this one guy just rolls around with ostwinds, storms with shrks and mp44s...

if you dont have the proper  counter you will fail...

its not the new toys and add ons that make EIRR fail at times, its the people who know how to work the game and blob the best units all together.. for some of us that not fun, but thats what you have deal with i guess.

[FailHammer]

AB are fine as is, use some MP40 volks or LMG grens and laugh your ass off.

has nothing to do with the BAR alone.. its when you have a person who runs around 3 Bars AB and 3 RR AB... its the blob effect that makes it hard to deal with, if you play against a AB player who may only have 3 or 4 total AB squads on at one time its not hard to counter, its when you have 6 or more at once, i see it wit h german players too, this one guy just rolls around with ostwinds, storms with shrks and mp44s...

if you dont have the proper  counter you will fail...

its not the new toys and add ons that make EIRR fail at times, its the people who know how to work the game and blob the best units all together.. for some of us that not fun, but thats what you have deal with i guess.

This is the fucking problem. Your solution highlights the point Am. Have a bigger, more specialized blob? Good Lord. good thing i only called on a huge blob of AI only. -i even managed to pull off a double mg trap vs mountains blob last week and i managed to suppress them. Not pin. i lost 2 mgs a pak puma and the rest of what i had there. it is just a ball of shit that rolls around with good mobility and fucks shit up. I want more skill, mo better micro, not more bullshit blobness. Single purpose units are great because they require skill to use. Commandos, storms, whatever. Good at one thing if used tactically, owned if not.

[AmPM]

You don't need a blob, a couple LMG gren squads or an MP40 volks + HMG will take care of it.

[Smokaz]

PE should not complain about AB rifles. AB rifles are impotent against PE.

If you think AB is bad, even after the most recent nerfs and at least one more I think is coming, where are the complaints about infantry doctrine?

Their healing is more pop-efficient, they get a much better selection of AI weapons and they can get a T4 which renders their AT capabilities better than tank hunters for cost. Gay vet 0 stickies, assualt flamers, american officers.. blah blah the list is endless! and they a awesome arty piece to boot.

AB is a gimp doctrine compared to the current inf. Real men play infantry. I present the historic evidence of my unbeatable bren carrier carabine spam, my unbeatable carabine spam company, my current tank reaper companyla blah. All of them had ridicolous win  loss ratios. My luft: 2-1 win ratio. My americans? Its been 20+, sitting at 8 to 1 right now.

[EIRRMod]

Who approved the current AB doctrine? Who thought it was actually a good idea? What about the doctrines in the public doctrine draft thread?

I believe the monkeys who were flinging poo at the time approved it.

AB is an example of what happens when people stop listening to me =)

[EIRRMod]

The main problem I see with the airborne rifleman is quite frankly the BAR. It's quite frankly the most versatile anti-infantry infantry weapon in the game. It will do tons of damage at close range, and it will still scale well at long range. If the BAR upgrade was replaced with some sort of more close-range-based weapon(Shotgun, M1A3 Carbine in full-auto?) : it would at least allow long range stand-off infantry to effectively duel with the airborne blob(for instance - grenadiers) - while still maintaining the overall anti-infantry capability of the Airborne rifleman unit.

Good analysis =)

[EIRRMod]

I don't see why the EiRR team has gotten the tendency to try and buff a special unit so, so that its weaknesses are gone.

This is not intended, BoB and I quite frequently re-iterate that doctrine buffs, or vet gains should NEVER make the unit no longer have its weakness, or make it effective against its counter.

With the Airborne Rifles though, we have seen a weakness of a DOCTRINE being strengthened, and I believe thats the main issue with them as a unit.

Mysty has a good suggestion imo.

[Mgallun74]

I believe the monkeys who were flinging poo at the time approved it.

AB is an example of what happens when people stop listening to me =)

whats wrong with the Doct? its not like anything makes it uber, there are plenty of german docts i bring up that are worse

[EIRRMod]

whats wrong with the Doct? its not like anything makes it uber, there are plenty of german docts i bring up that are worse

Just certain parts.

I believe Alpha-strike is an example of an ability that 'does it all'.

And yeah, the doctrines are a mess atm, we're starting to flow back into it again - expect to see some (good) changes.

[FailHammer]

Im not talking about docs, im talking about a unit that seems designed to counter the counters to AB and promote blobbing. What is so wrong with having a weakness in a unit that makes you use tactics instead of blobs?

[lionel23]

Honestly I think whoever wrote airborne doesn't know the role of airborne.  I think airborne should always have been a 'support' company while infantry were the mainline assaulty guys, and Armor is of course the heavy hitters.  What I'd kill for Ranger support teams that Airborne gets a plethora of!

And sides, if I recall airbornes with BARs don't even get suppression fire.

[AmPM]

Lionel, think of it like this, the AB w/ Bar is basically a 6 man LMG gren squad with fireup with the Terror t3 allowing them to move and shoot. They used to have SF, but it was super broken.

[Groundfire]

Lionel, think of it like this, the AB w/ Bar is basically a 6 man LMG gren squad with fireup with the Terror t3 allowing them to move and shoot. They used to have SF, but it was super broken.

AB rifles have never had SF. Ive played AB from day 1 and I would've known if they had that.

[AmPM]

They had SF in their first iteration. You have not played AB since day 1, since AB day 1 was before you started playing.

Anyway, yes they did have SF, it was broken, it got removed.

I shall find you the patch notes, if they still exist.