Vet Rework

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[Tymathee]

We can't significantly 'buff' the vet bonuses to be honest, stronger veterancy creates an even bigger advantage between vet horders and non vet horders, That's why we opted for easy to gain, not soo super vet.

In the old EIR you would automatically gain some minor xp per game played, this way you were automatically 'tricked' into caring for your units. You would gain vet without specifically focussing on it, unlike in the current iteration, and once you did you would try to keep it alive.

I thought that was in effect now. Sometimes my units gain xp just by me bringing them on and not fighting. Also in old eir you'd also lose xp when you lost, which also took from the spirit of the mod and made it really really hard for new players. (like me at the time)

At least vet hoarding is in the spirit of the mod.. is gameplay where a lot of units are throwaway, really in the spirit of a persistent mod?

Games used to be won and lost on the willingness to RISK your vet when it was more valuable.. making people Tym Retreat their vet 3 blob carried a big resource loss for them

i have no vet 3 blobs that you speak of so i have no idea what you're talking about.

So what do you suggest?
 This is actually something we have been wanting to do for a very long time

I think it's easily possible, the system is already in place in the launcher (halftracks) and just needs to be stretched a little.

the way i'd do it is all crews are 0 pop, the pop is all tied into the tank, you drag the tank down, then you drag the crew down with the tank and right click it like it's a half track the crew comes on the field. This way you can change the crew and put it on a different tank, the problem with this would be that you can crew vet up a stug and then put it on a tiger once it vets to vet 3, so to counter that you'd have Stug crew, tiger crew, p4 crew, sherman crew etc.

Next there's two ways to implement this further and an option within one of them.

Making crews an option, you can choose to have the crew or not but those that don't have crews can't retain vet. Or tanks can still vet (like in blitzkrieg) but the crew gives bigger bonuses that stack on top of the tanks vet.

the other way is, making crews required for all tanks, thus eliminating suicide tanks completely and if you forget to crew up your tank either you can't complete the company transaction or when the tank gets called on the field its inoperable (self-destruct option would be nice here, or a self retreat)

Back to the main subject of this. I think Vet is fine as is although i'd like to see more unit specific vet like there used to be. all allied tanks used to get speed bonuses at vet 1 but axis tanks would get rcv damage bonuses or something like that.

So basically vet should make the unit better at what it's already good at. kch would gain vet that makes them better assaulters, engineers better builders and survivability, axis tanks would be harder to kill and allied tanks gain acceleration or received accuracy bonuses. axis pak gains extra shot in cloak, allied 57 gains more penetration etc.

maybe vet 4/5 instead of getting buffs, they gain abilities like sprint, cloaking, fire up, being able to build defenses, maybe some infantry gain extra men or new main weapon type, marksman shot, etc.  

[VERTIGGO]

I'm not interested in extra management of tank crews, i.e. switching tanks etc., but a means of extricating with veterancy intact from an unlucky button job is long long overdue.

I don't think I have to prove that it's lame that one or two gimmicks can break the entire persistency aspect of certain units... there are so few units that can pin down a unit with no chance of escape...

[Tymathee]

lol no chance of escape? if ur tank is unsupported, thats the only way button makes it so its impossible but even then its only i think about 15 seconds of hold and 5 seconds of those your tank can fire and the other seconds you can still move a little bit.

also it wouldn't be extra management, the way i described it is so simple, it takes one extra second reaalll easy

[VERTIGGO]

lol no chance of escape? if ur tank is unsupported, thats the only way button makes it so its impossible but even then its only i think about 15 seconds of hold and 5 seconds of those your tank can fire and the other seconds you can still move a little bit.

also it wouldn't be extra management, the way i described it is so simple, it takes one extra second reaalll easy

People bring this up all of the time... and it ignores the logic of the argument. One unit's validity cannot be based on the presence of another. (specifically, panthers' responsibilities often take it out of the range of friendly mgs or whatever you hope will kill the buttoning unit, supporting units are not a legitimate factor) Besides, button is not always the same. Sometimes players are on roads and can just back out of it without any reduction in firing, and sometimes the FOV goes dark too quickly to even call an off-map. I think range has something to do with it, but it's not predictable enough to just say that the panther should die because your micro failed... once it happens, you just can't micro, and it's not always avoidable, especially in the case of bren carriers which are much faster.

[Tymathee]

Yes thats something that's brought up cuz it's true. When I play skilled players i have a hard time keeping button because they immediately have something near it to try and kill it and a lot of times i either have to back off in fear of losing said unit or it's killed.

[AlterFrax]

Implement the old, if your unit is lost, its gone from a limited pool until it refreshes again. =)

Also, make vet more important. The game is about persistence right? Make keeping your units alive important.

Change game modes from "hold all teh sectors!" to an objective based system. This way you are forced to defend or attack an area to hold it, much like an actual mission. Flanking and such is still important to attack from a different direction or to attack their rear echelon units.

+1 to everything he said. THIS is what will bring in so many new people.

[AmPM]

There's a very very fine line between too powerful vet and "insignificant vet". However, when vet is completely free and gained normally there is less of a need for stronger vet as the player doesn't need to invest anything in order to get it. We need to be more wary of vet being too strong, as that would create a significant ingame, non-skill related, discrepancy between new and older players (assuming those older players vet horde).

Although with the changes to the grinding system, veterancy will become more or less the ONLY non-skill related discrepancy between players, leading to a much more level playing field than present currently.

This is what you are failing to understand. Vet as it is now, is not worth taking units off the field to retain.

Let us take an example. IF my grens get +20% at vet 3 and 15% more HP plus a random extra nade and some other minor bonuses, why is that better? I have to retreat at 2 men to keep it reliably while just keeping the 2 last guys (and a possible upgraded weapon, nade throw, etc) on the field gives me nearly 80% more fighting power than retreating the 2 man vet 3 squad will.

Its more worthwhile, and you get more bang for your buck, letting you men fight until they die.

[VERTIGGO]

Yes thats something that's brought up cuz it's true. When I play skilled players i have a hard time keeping button because they immediately have something near it to try and kill it and a lot of times i either have to back off in fear of losing said unit or it's killed.

I'm not at all denying the significance, or even that it is an issue most of the time, but it's an external factor and cannot be the basis for the evaluation of a unit ability.

[WildZontar]

A stupid idea, but an idea none the less.



Maybe for Veterancy 5 and 6 the person could name the unit something special and give it a skin so it can be recognized on the battlefield?



IE: Sherman Jumbo Vet 5, you have the ability to name the tank Blockbuster/Nelly/Whatever.

Vet 6 you can give it a different camo that makes it stand out, such as having a Tiger that normally is a dull grey/brownish  camo(Skins can change it also) to something like a shiny silver as if it was newly painted or something like that.



Just a thought, although I know many people will think of something better than this 

[TheIcelandicManiac]

OMG allready has that,
and you are not the first one that has tryed to say something like that.

[WildZontar]

OMG allready has that,
and you are not the first one that has tryed to say something like that.

Why can't we have it :|

[NightRain]

Vet 4 Bike.

The gunner can throw a handgrenade!

[lionel23]

Vet 5 bike, every bullet is a sniper bullet.. oh snap!

[WildZontar]

Vet 4 Bike.

The gunner can throw a handgrenade!

THIS IS NOT COHO 

[Tymathee]

^ that would be fun though. and give jeeps stickies

[smurfORnot]

give sniper stickies,demos/nades like in eastern front...lol

[nugnugx]

How is the rework going ?

[panzerman]

ITS NOT!!!!

lol i doubt it hey who they currently working on the mod atm

is it just firesparks, EIRRMOD and Groundfire atm?

[nugnugx]

ITS NOT!!!!

lol i doubt it hey who they currently working on the mod atm

is it just firesparks, EIRRMOD and Groundfire atm?

the actual stats needs to be done first,,,, and those can be done by anyone on paper.

[EliteGren]

They are done. Me and Bob finished it in january.