6 november 9pm GMT - 2nd Doctrine rework Meeting

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[Mysthalin]

The rank was "Tester" (there were no balance advisors at the time), joined to temporarly develop the first infantry doctrine.

So that's when we were still using a 4-tree doctrinal system? AKA so long ago it is in no way relevant whatsoever?

[AmPM]

My feeling on it is different.

I just don't think anything anyone here says, that is not in the Balance "In Crowd" will get heard really.

Hopefully EIRRMod and the "balance team" (which strangely consists of a lot of people that don't play that often) as well as people that never play (since the entire dev team seems to have a say in balance) will get this all worked out so that we can have a compelling environment to play well balanced and fun games in.

I'm hoping for the best; sadly experience has shown I should be preparing for something else...

[lionel23]

So that's when we were still using a 4-tree doctrinal system? AKA so long ago it is in no way relevant whatsoever?

No it was when we first went over to the 3-tree system, so it is relevant.

[EIRRMod]

My feeling on it is different.

I just don't think anything anyone here says, that is not in the Balance "In Crowd" will get heard really.

Hopefully EIRRMod and the "balance team" (which strangely consists of a lot of people that don't play that often) as well as people that never play (since the entire dev team seems to have a say in balance) will get this all worked out so that we can have a compelling environment to play well balanced and fun games in.

I'm hoping for the best; sadly experience has shown I should be preparing for something else...

I dont think you were at the last meeting to offer any input were you AmPM?

If you dont turn up, then it really is a self-fulfilling prophecy that its just the Dev / Balance team that makes the calls then isnt it? ;p
Turn up, discuss what issues you see, and actually make a difference - rather than complaining that we dont listen.

As they say - put up or shut up.

[AmPM]

Plenty of threads have had well thought out comments. I shouldn't be required to attend a meeting when I have more important things to do in order to leave input.

If you wanted any player input, it's easy to find all over the forums for the last few months. Thats the great thing about forums and the modern age. See, I can leave a message, just like this one, and it will still be here when I'm away from the computer.

It's also pretty easy to find.

[lionel23]

Case in point EIRR, not trying to be rude or disrespect you, but its posts like that that make many of us feel that the 'team' is generally hostile to some of us community members... I turned up for example and I felt that other people had a greater say to go with the flow than others, and I had people telling me this and complaining that the entire discussion was being derailed by Mys and others who were perceived as being part of that 'crew' and everyone else is being swatted down and being told it's stupid or you know nothing or that is not how it has been decided by others.

I had my say, and I'm being told to shut up, not sure on AMPM but I think that is pretty rude to tell him to shut it when we've tried to have a say in the matters.

[AmPM]

Haha, Lionel, the thing is, its the internet. I don't care if they tell me to shut up. I do mind that they ignore any and all posts and then complain that we are not giving input just because we don't make the meetings.

Anyway, EIRRMod, there are plenty of posts specifically about AW and IA in the last couple weeks, many of them may not be perfect solutions, but its better than the current gameplay mechanic and wouldn't take long to put into effect. Would it matter after the doctrine changeover, no, would it keep the game fun so people are around until that happens, yea.

[Mysthalin]

AmPm - you'd be surprised how much the doctrines were changed from when they first hit the forums and when we discussed them in the meeting. Most of what had been said of these doctrines on the furms was actually taken into account, and the doctrines were already changed by the time the meeting took place. It was really just a matter of fine-tuning.

and I had people telling me this and complaining that the entire discussion was being derailed by Mys and others who were perceived as being part of that 'crew'

Yet again - I was talking a lot because I had a lot to say. I followed the guidelines of announcing I wish to speak of something, and I was heard. If you did not have as much to say - don't expect me to suddenly stop airing my views just so you can catch up in the amount of words said.

[EIRRMod]

I had my say, and I'm being told to shut up, not sure on AMPM but I think that is pretty rude to tell him to shut it when we've tried to have a say in the matters.

Actually its the opposite.

Im trying to get you to 'put up' - the meeting is being placed due to time-restraints, and gets things done orderly and quickly in an environment which we can all discuss / understand what the other is meaning.

You plainly said that you were not showing up - and if thats so.... dont complain that other people made an ill-informed decision you could have helped prevent?
My posts like the previous ones, and plainly due to the misconception of elitism that is non existant.
I keep trying to include the community, and its turned into 'They dont listen anyway?'

*shrug*

[EIRRMod]

As they say - put up or shut up.

Heres the quote you guys are misreading.

It *IS* a choice.

[lionel23]

Ahh well that may be true AmPm, I work Customer Service and I can't stand seeing people disrespected or outright hostility.  Things should be discussed in a calm and normal manner and all sides should be heard.  It's just a level of common courtesy and professional I expect from adults, you know what I mean?  I would appreciate just certain members of the team and even community to show that level of respect for others, for the sake we are a community.

[Killer344]

So that's when we were still using a 4-tree doctrinal system? AKA so long ago it is in no way relevant whatsoever?

Around 13 months ago.


/end drama.

[Mysthalin]

Around 13 months ago.


/end drama.

My point exactly ^^.

[AmPM]

EIRRMod, you have consistently been the most reasonable member of the dev team next to Bob (who is awesome).

Mainly, the people that irk the community are your "Balance Team" usually begin the discussion with "I'm on the balance team, and I am right".

Take the PaK40 for instance in the last campaign as a reward unit. Balance team says it OP, I tell them it's not really any better than the PaK38 despite costing RPs (meaning, much more expensive as a whole), Brn says, "Well, it penetrates more"; I tell him it's still not better, his response "We'll have to nerf the PaK38's penetration out of ambush, it's to high". Turns out its DPS is lower than a PaK38 vs most targets and vs some its vastly inferior due to not getting a second shot off ever. This is coupled with its slower speed and higher cost...

Somehow this unit has made it into a T3 UNLOCK in a doctrine next to the useless and nerfed ROFLNeb.

Really? Did anyone look over this ahead of time? It's 2 units that do nothing to help you out with your company as a T3 unlock.

[Killer344]

It's funny because neither the pak38 or the pak40 were nerfed (cloak was just a bug)... so...

[Mysthalin]

AmPM - yet again, considering the shadowy and secretive nature of the balance team that you have percieved.. How do you know Brn is even on the balance team to begin with?

[Killer344]

 .... balance members can't reveal their identity so...

[lionel23]

Yeah their identities are hidden =/ Though it can be guessed who some of them are.

[Mysthalin]

Keep on guessing then. But the main thing is - AmPm's argument that balance team members can claim "I'm a BT member therefore I'm right and you're wrong" is utterly falacious.

[AmPM]

Who has a say on balance has nothing to do with who might or might not have a balance team tag =)