[PE] Hummel spread fix

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[VERTIGGO]

Woops, i thought I joined the [PE] Hummel spread fix thread, guess I need reading glasses.

+1 good one!

Has anyone brought up the insane range buff that the incendiary shell gives? I hadn't known it before, but while the priest requires a T4 for range increase, the Hummel gets it with incendiary, and immediately can cover the entire battlefield from spawn. I have seen as many games go down the drain just because it required so much effort to force it to retreat. It also means that once a player has that unlock, he is pretty much guaranteed that it will never die, so it's an automatic vet whore.

[NightRain]

+1 good one!

Has anyone brought up the insane range buff that the incendiary shell gives? I hadn't known it before, but while the priest requires a T4 for range increase, the Hummel gets it with incendiary, and immediately can cover the entire battlefield from spawn. I have seen as many games go down the drain just because it required so much effort to force it to retreat. It also means that once a player has that unlock, he is pretty much guaranteed that it will never die, so it's an automatic vet whore.

Isn't that the same with 105s and such? You need a lot of effort to put them out only to retreat the crew bringing another one to recrew or another truck to build another 105/25Pdr after the one is destroyed?

And once The burning toy known as hummel is chased offmap there ownt be another one out there. Just drop 2x tettys on enemy spawn or airborne with RRs and watch the hummel retreat.

[Demon767]

And once The burning toy known as hummel is chased offmap there ownt be another one out there. Just drop 2x tettys on enemy spawn or airborne with RRs and watch the hummel retreat.

Do it i dare you

[VERTIGGO]

Problem is, only 2 out of 6 allied factions have dropped units. With current balance, even less than a third of people use those companies. So most of the time, you won't see either coy on the field with you, and you have to fight your way there. The real difference though, is that 105s have to be placed forward of spawn, and can be destroyed, and they don't burn the entire battlefield killing "anything biological", so it's less critical to remove them.

[smurfORnot]

or if 1 m10 can sneak behind lines,which isnt all that big problem?
hummel is inacurate,yes he can burn everything but u have to be lucky to hit anything,and after first hit,usually all inf and support weapons move away from area. and if some weapon dies from fire,you will just recrew it,but when 105 hits it,it's destroyed in quite bit of cases,and infantry dies instantly,it doesnt have time to move away like when inc round falls.

[nugnugx]

1) incendiary does not give range buff




2) It's funny how vertiggo wants to 'nerf' the hummel by decreasing the spread, while i want to 'buff' it by decreasing the spread.

We want the same thing but view it differently.

[BigDick]

hummel is shit even with incendiary barrage

if you don't play against some halfdead brainless zombies who are sitting in flames for 10 years you will not kill anything

i had one good game with the incendiary hummel (was a 4v4) after that i thought it rocks but actually i was wrong

i was just lucky to get a couple of lucky hits onto a huge clusterfuck of blobs which commanders seems to be fapping instead of controlling their units

1 flanking m8 or stag and hummel needs to go

2 marders and a 50mm is a way better fuel investment than this piece of crap i for my part deselected this shit

the incendiary really needs less spread and faster killing and other than vertigo thinks its actually a buff to decrease spread

[VERTIGGO]

I'm pretty sure I never said I wanted to decrease or increase spread. However, I believe there's a good reason Relic never considered giving it extra shells or x4 incendiaries.

And, use Corsix:

abilities\_europeinruins\pe\panzer_elite_howitzer_barrage_ability.lua

range Value 250

abilities\_europeinruins\pe\doctrines\scorched_incendiary_barrage.lua

range Value 325

Compare that to the priest with a native 175 and requires a Tier 4 to match Hummel's native range of 250. Also compare that to the US howitzer with a max range of 250 and no specials whatsoever. By the way, creeping barrage is always 175.

Double range makes a enormous difference, and the creeping barrage is extremely easy to dodge after the first few rounds, whereas fire cannot be.

Now, I don't use either, and I play axis as much as I can, but I know when I see a stupid dynamic. Reducing spam is an objective thing, and contributes to civil games which are much more satisfying. I guarantee most people who have left EIRR have simply been irritated by silly units or abilities, and if you've looked at the launcher lately...

[nugnugx]

Just because u got owned once by a lucky incendiary it does not mean it's good , incendiary is shit and no ammount of range can make it good , even if it could fire on whole map from spawn it still would be shit.

[NightRain]

Quite in the contrarry Inc Barrage needs more spread to cover more area.

Its job is Area of Denial instead of destroying shit.

For example. Enemy is assaulting you. The basic concept of attacking Army is this.

||| Infantry |<>| tank    <| ATG


|||        <|
|<>|        <|
|||


That kind of a formate is often enemy assault. If you barrage ONTOP of it you end up hitting the ATGs. But with more spread your chances are that the shells land:

x Hummel burn


x |x|| x <|
x|<>|   <|
|||x

The enemy assault Infantry and support weapon wise is in a chaos. The infantry NEEDS to get out from the fire and the ATGs can't follow the assault force or were hit by the hummel inc shells.

[nugnugx]

delete this thread and delete hummel from vcoh so i don't have to read all of this

fu relic for making OF

[BigDick]

Its job is Area of Denial instead of destroying shit.

and why should i spend my rare fuel as pe into units that don't kill anything while im getting overrun by light vehicles and tanks and im running out of AT quick since my usable AT costs fuel and dies in seconds to enemy AT (ATGs, handheld AT, vehicle guns, tank guns...)?

that makes no sense to me

btw(offtopic): can we add a deselection of ressource advantages to the launcher? i feel i need more fuel as PE instead of munitions

and @vertigo

no one really uses hummels in vcoh except of some the sheldt compstomping napz

[Demon767]

My hummel stops blobbing from brits. the meta game for brit players is to blob all there infantry together and i just punish them for it. so i win

[BigDick]

than you didn't played much in a while the current metagame is spaming overbuffed rca cromwells or spamming some stags or spamming churchills or using some hard hitting l33t mandos (that are probably capable to get rid of your hummel more quick then you can count up to 3)

[VERTIGGO]

My hummel stops blobbing from brits. the meta game for brit players is to blob all there infantry together and i just punish them for it. so i win

True dat mate. My point is it's too effective for one unit. I don't expect you to admit that of course, since it's so useful to you though lol.

Heh, I haven't seen commandos since last year.

[Demon767]

well lets see. i got a replay of my last game negating a riflenade spam from brits. clocked 36kills and 1 tank kill on my hummel.. hmmm?

good, i want everyone to try and attack my hummel, becuase i know they will, and i have mines and AT just waiting for them to come get it. and once they do BAM i kill there vehicles and my hummel stays alive and i continue to rape there support and infantry

[Demon767]

now since support weaponsare 3, and usually a direct hit from hummel inc kills 2-3 man and they retreat the squad, 36/3 = 12 squads i killed. depending on unit mp we could average it to say.. 220 mp each squad. thats 2640 manpower destroyed. and depending on support weapon and inf variable ill round it to 80mu per squad which means 960mu destroyed. pretty good investment when i usually average the exact same figures every game

[LeoPhone]

my suggestion:

change incendiary barrage of hummel to a separate barrage.
the barrage loses it's default explosion damage. It only fires the flames.

default artillery barrage gets it's spread the same as 105 and 25 pdr.

[BigDick]

u fail leo

it is a separate barrage, it gets no explosion damage (it gets slightly damage in rgds but it doesnt look like it actually hurts units on explosion) just the flames which are killing very slowly and are randomly spread in a huge area with enough gaps to move to when it accidentally hit something

the incendiary barrage looks very strange in rgds especially that it gets huge scatter on barrage itsself and a scatter on the DOT probably thats the reason why it sucks most time even with units standing in the flames

and it got a smaller dot radius than an incendiary nade (5m vs 6m) but its area damage looks bugged since it defines damage modifiers up to 10 meters

if the damage radius is meant to the randomly spread mini dots after randomly landed shells than its bugged too because even then if there is a mini incendiary dot at the edge of second scattered area it would do almost zero DOT compared to that mini incendiary dot randomly landed in the middle of a scattered hummel shell hit

to throw in some comparisons am incendiary nade is approximated 3 times more effective at killing something than getting a direct incendiary hit of a hummel

and we all know that you just walk out of the flames of incendiary nades

and that stacked scatter makes the hummel spread so much that its no problem to find non burning areas right next to you

[VERTIGGO]

Ha ha.

BD you can shout it all day and all night, that allied units are killed "very slowly" when standing in the flames, but I no one who's experienced it in action will take you seriously. It's one thing to say "this unit does twice the damage as that unit, the .rgd's say so" and another to continually rant about how your unit "sucks" and is no good.

Hopefully this forum is not about politically convincing a democratic majority that one side "needs more buffing". I would hope we are seriously evaluating stats in order to achieve balance, as that is the only means of maintaining an enjoyable game, and ultimately something that people will play. If your units are overbuffed it just means you'll have no noobs to stomp because they know their given shite to play with