Fix the mod - No doctrine rework

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[Killer344]

Hire him, I'm sure he could finish the entire mod in a month of work.

oi, I just woke up, didn't see the double sense there lol.

[MultiDoc]

If i may reply in such a thread. Please dont get me wrong, i'm just an EiR player who loves the mod and CoH and have been playing for years (about a year in EiR). And although i'm not in anyway a good player, i'd hate it if there would be no more EiR or CoH for some odd reason (in fact EiR and CoH are the only pc games i play really).

Anyway, as far as the "complete doctrines rework" thing is concerned, my humble opinion is that it would be much more benefitial to fix what is currently not working (tier unlocks, doc abilities, doctrines like RCA and Luft), patch/change what needs to be changed (for example: inc assault, AW, etc) and make a few additions/changes in the vet/grind system.

I have absolutely no idea about coding and stuff like that, but I'm certain that patching/fixing what we currently have and making all of it working as intended and fixing what's op or not, will certainly take far less work and time instead of reworking the whole mod.

In any case - as i already stated - i'm just a guy who loves ER and have fun (and stress and frustration at times...) and would love to see this mod get better and flourish.

With best intentions,

Doc

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

As to the Mod,

Unknown I see your points mate and you know that I would usually agree on all those points, I guess the level of dissatisfaction from the players I'm coming into contact with is palatable, and it seems that the fix's are reasonably simple in the short run.  Surely these fix's can be made in the short run while the major work continues?

Wouldn't that be a fair compromise?

Keep the player-base happy, allow the Dev the time needed to continue the real coding work and make it to the final goal of the campaign War-map.


Anyway I'm sure it will all work out in the end,  it just needs a little more urgency I think.  

+1

May i also point that the things causing the most problems are little things (at least in my eyes, as i said i know nothing about coding/patching) that could be fixed/patched in no time at all.

[Nevyen]

 

I think a lot of players do feel this way.

I think some posts have cleared up a bit of misunderstanding as well. For some reason, the community at large feels there is a complete doctrine rework coming out. Some posts here have clarified some misunderstandings; it is not a complete rework, just a tweaking of the old. If that is the case, great.

Just for the record: I think I am still the largest donator here. I am NOT the guy Carrot is quoting in his post.

I do have a question for the dev team. Most notably EirrMod: What would it take from the community, to motivate you to spend more time on the mod and get the war map implemented sooner?
You do not get paid for this, so it is a labor of love. We can show you the love, but we need to know what it is first 

Well a way to stop his hard drive from dying every 6 months:P

Other than that who knows, he's a New Zea lander,  sheep come to mind but i think he would want something more

In all seriousness  though Knowing Che, it R/L more than anything else that makes it hard for him at times.

I'm not sure there is much we can do other than continue to support him as we have done.

[Killer344]

can you guys bother to read the previous posts at least....

[Mysthalin]

Sorry if I offended you Nev, didn't mean to .

I have absolutely no idea about coding and stuff like that, but I'm certain that patching/fixing what we currently have and making all of it working as intended and fixing what's op or not, will certainly take far less work and time instead of reworking the whole mod.

Yet again - it's not a complete and utter rework. What it is is generally a slight standartisation of buffs and perks(which follow a CONCISE guideline) : which literally translates to replacing abilities nobody ever takes, buffing the ones that are too weak and nerfing the ones that are too strong. Quite frankly you could reffer to it as nothing more than a doctrinal balance patch! However, a certain doctrine wasn't even in yet (RCA) and others are being changed up more than others (Luftwaffe, Scorched Earth) - and this is what earned the "patch" the name of a rework.

It isn't the same kind of rework as the previous one had been.

[3rdCondor]

Mysthalin is right. Most of the rework afaik is changing some tier 3s to tier 4s vice versa and getting rid of some crap like AW. I'm not quite sure of what exactly is being changed since the meetings but it doesn't seem like a complete rework at all.

[Illegal_Carrot]

Blatantly untrue, it's primarily Bob, brn and Firesparks (to a lesser extent afaik) that are doing the doctrine coding. This is all SQL/RGD coding and has nothing to do with what EIRRmod is working on. (The sexy new features such as warmap, reworked grind, etc etc etc)

If it wasn't for the doctrine reworks they'd just be sitting on their asses anyway.

The difference in coding the launcher and the game I understand, that's not really what I was getting at. What I meant is that they could (and should!) be fixing the current game, making it fun and enjoyable now, rather than concentrating on a distant, unrealistic goal (the rework).

I'm amazed at how a doctrine rework that retains 80% of the abilities of the current ones can do EVERYTHING worse than the current doctrines.

You'd think it'd be impossible, but somehow they do.
Let's look at the first four:
-Defensive: Doesn't change the overall play style of any part of the doctrine, or any specialization tree. All it does is remove abilities that are already in the game, and replace them with more complicated ones that have to be created from scratch. Camouflage tree is still useless, For The Fatherland is still useless, Medic bunkers are still useless.
-Armor: Removes the second repair (the best thing Armor had going for it), and promotes vehicles that operate while repairing (the most annoying this Armor had). Gives Armor the best anti-ATG abilities in the game with Forward Intel/WP Strike, and buffs Engineers AI capabilities for some reason. Makes a Crocodile Dundee reference.
-Artillery: Gives Royal Engineer like tank buffs, and gives RCA more offmaps. Too bad RCA has been missing a doctrine for so long now.
-Luftwaffe: Gives buffs ranging from ridiculously UP to ridiculously OP. Gives out free off-maps, just like old Air Superiority (I thought we were supposed to be avoiding that?). Hard to argue with this, though, because the current Luft doctrine is so bad.

A lot of the things you listed have fixes slated for the next release and/or will be fixed in the doctrine rework.

So how long are we stuck with unfun buggy crap? When is the 'next release,' other than Soon(TM)? And once you've gotten those abilities/unlocks balanced, why would you turn around and completely get rid of them if they've been made perfectly fine.

Also, kill the mod? Really now?

I've seen a steady stream of players leave already, and it's a trend that does not seem like it will stop soon.

[NightRain]

I agree with Carrot's point.

How long, does the player community has to face these awfully broken abilities and things until fixed? How long does PE has to suffer from a broken Tier 4 which doesn't give any veterancy? (same with others with similar thing) How long do we haveto wait to vet up our Staghounds? How long do we have to face off with IA and AW spams? HOW LONG do we have to play in the sandbox full of catcrap that no one bothers to clean is all I want to know- fixing the current one before rework would be what the community wants, not a entirely huge rework for the doctorines. That's the point Carrot has along with most other players.

[Killer344]

huh, you people are just blinded to what you want to believe or understand as a "doctrine rework", cba to explain it again.

I lol'd at the last sentence, this mod went trough far worse stages, I even remember once a dev saying "the mod is over, go home" followed by 6 months of 0% progress... and yet we're still here, aren't we?

[nugnugx]

followed by 6 months of 0% progress..

that's when OMG stole our community 

[salan]

I think the major gripe you are hearing here is that the old doctrines allowed absolutely abusable abilities to remain in them for so long.  This not only hurts the current play but also the belief the future play will be viable, bug free, and fun.

And so the confidence of the general player base suffers with what they are presented with.

In BC canada our province introduced the HST.   There is currently a recall campaign going on to remove them from office because how they did it.  If they had presented their new tax in a manner that helped they could have probably gotten away from it.  But they expected the ignorant plebs (us civilians) to just accept business as usual.   And now their premiers approval rating is at a record 08%, lowest ever in our history and a party that was dead and gone actually has a chance to win the next election.

my point being, sometimes fixing is better then recreating, but either direction needs to take into consideration those who either use or support it, as well as those who don't.

people believe this to be a complete rework, the PR team needs to get on the misconception and change it, because they are right, a complete rework would be ludicrous.  Which this isn't.

[Killer344]

that's when OMG stole our community  

I was talking pre-TLS.

[Mgallun74]

meh to OMG, i played a few overthere, i see some old names over there, at times the spam and idiotic play is worse.. and the people are rather rude.. i never could get a answer why the web application to setup companys didnt work, i figured it out on my own, after my post was ignored for days.

plus the way to join games and update everythign other there is a bunch of goofy clicks and stuff, i prefer our nice launcher, better vetrancy and stat tracking here.. i will play here till it dies.. i just dont like omg or its community.  they do talk alot of trash about us.

[Mysthalin]

Carrot - most of what you said is problematic was actually adressed in the community-to-dev doctrine meeting.

Just saying.

(P.S. FTFL - an ability that literally nearly halves the damage taken by your infantry and makes you immune to suppression is useless? You're seriously implying that KCH with 160 effective HP/man are shit(this is ignoring their heroic armour and criticals)? Fission Mailed).

[AmPM]

I think the trust level for the dev team is about the same as that given to the Bush Administration....

[Killer344]

 

[Mgallun74]

I wants a B17 Bombing run!

[Tymathee]

oh god...this hurts (rips heart out)...I agree with myst. *cries*

anyway, we call it a rework, cuz they've called it a rework
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=16862.0

but i see how, i like all the changes, some of them radical and ideas were also implemented that id' have never thought of but are pure genius so, as long as I Get my rca tbh im happy

plus, its not truly a rework without a wipe and therse no wipe, so its really just a major patch

[Spartan_Marine88]

oh god...this hurts (rips heart out)...I agree with myst. *cries*

anyway, we call it a rework, cuz they've called it a rework
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=16862.0

but i see how, i like all the changes, some of them radical and ideas were also implemented that id' have never thought of but are pure genius so, as long as I Get my rca tbh im happy

plus, its not truly a rework without a wipe and therse no wipe, so its really just a major patch

umm, there is gonna be a wipe

[Unkn0wn]

Surely these fix's can be made in the short run while the major work continues?

Actually, that's where it gets tricky. We are incapable of releasing any game patches (new launcher features excluded) while we wait for the doctrine rework to be completed, which as you all know will be released 12 doctrines at once.