OP and UP doctrines

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[nugnugx]

I've made a little compilation of what i think is OP or UP


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OP:

Americans, Armor , T4- HVAP rounds


T17 gains +25% penetration. - needs to be removed

T17 should not gain penetration , it is a solely anti-inf light veh. Giving it a penetration to its fast firing gun can cause it being OP. Imagine 2-3 t17 penetrating p4 from behind with a bullet every second.


It's like Ostwind penetrating sherman , Allies wouldn't want to see this.


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American, Inf, t2 -Suppress and maneouvre

Garand , BAR , Thompson do +33% more damage vs suppressed or pinned targets and thompson makes more suppresion

+33%  flat damage sounds OP for a t2 and the fact that every bar has insta suppresion. Damage needs to be reduced or this ability changed.


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Americans INF, T3, Support training

All moving infantry +50% accuracy

+50% is too much for a t3, for comparison Panzer elite Scorched Earth t2 counter attack gives +15% to moving infantry. As a t3 it should give max +30%,  double of t2.

So either the SE +15% t2 is UP or this is OP.


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UP:

Wehrmacht, Blitzkrieg , T3- Heat Rounds

+15% damage and penetration for tanks. Is pretty weak and not thrilling for a t3.


Also it makes little sense to have it in the tree with with 'moving' abilities. It should be in the tree with panzer aces.

Maybe move it as it is , to t2 instead of behind enemy lines , and buff behind enemy lines and move it to its place on t3.


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Wehrmacht, Blitzkrieg , T3- Blitzkrieg

I doubt anyone will be using this as a t3 if there is also Tiger and German engineering with extra repair kits.

What i would do is to move it to t2 in precision strike place , precision strike to t1 on blitz reconnaissance and remove the reconnaissance( blitz never had offmap reconnaissance in the first place).

And for t3 create something usefull.


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Panzer Elite, Scorched Earth , T4 - Storm Tactics

Last time it was giving +15% hp to inf , idk why it has been removed. It's one of the weaker t4's at it is giving mostly accuracy to inf (and the leader rifle to PGs)

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To consider:


Brits , RCA, T4 - Battalion HQ

All offmaps +1 should be removed. There are enough offmaps and giving +1 additional offmaps, to Earth Shaker and Airburst Barrage would increase max pool from 4 to 6, and 6 offmaps can be a game breaker.
Offmaps should not be a turning point for EIR. We already had alot of offmaps and they were nerfed, no point in brining even more offmaps again.


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Brits , Commandos, T4 - RAF Support

All offmaps +1 should be removed. Same reason as above ^. Commandos have lancaster bombing and typhoon rocket strafe. 6 max offmaps with +1.

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Panzer Elite, Luftwaffe, T4- Fortress Europe

All offmaps +1 - the same as rest ^

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Wehrmacht, Defensive T4- Camouflage equipment

Flak 88mm gains single cloak -  would need tweaking IMO.

You can suprise enemy by cloaking it,  but once it fires it uncloaks itself and can never cloak again and enemy knows the position of your 88 so the the ability is now useless.

Up the uses to 2 or 3 so even tho the enemy knows the position of your 88 and he can arty it , he cannot snipe it or take down from further away.

The best would be to have infinite cloaks for 88 but that would probably make it OP.

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Panzer Elite,Scorched Earth, T1- Incendiary Assault

After the nerf the IA is pretty much useless now , there needs to be done something with it.

[NightRain]

Pretty much agree to all. 88 with PAK Cloak with no bounses sounds special in my opinnion...I likeeee. "SURPRIZE!"

[Unkn0wn]

Some good points raised.

[3rdCondor]

I'm going to have to agree about the T17. I am also going to say that Defensive looks kinda pathetic. Honestly it should be almost a mirrored image of US infantry imo.


EDIT: I'm not trying to bash the doctrines, thanks for releasing them. Some abilities need to be seen in action before they can be deemed good or bad, but imo the T17 is one of the listed examples that appears very dangerous.

[kwiatekkek]

not really nobodys   gonna  go  for  HVAP   when they  can  have   movin and  shootin  repairs lol

[AmPM]

I am, because my Assault Engies lead the way god damnit!!

Essayons!!

[shockcoil]

The actual blitzkrieg ability is AMAZING and well worth taking over the Tiger and German Engineering. Basically gets your tank or storms/sniper out of danger for free or conversely lets your tanks dish out some serious rape. Hell it gives -50% received suppression so you can use it to rush mg positions with inf like a mass fire up

[nugnugx]

yes but it is 2 max uses on a short span , not realy worth a t3 for me

[shockcoil]

Well okay fair enough, I thought it was 3 uses. 2 isn't worth the t3 I agree.

[Groundfire]

Well okay fair enough, I thought it was 3 uses. 2 isn't worth the t3 I agree.

Some T4s give +1 to offmaps now. Just incase you are going Joint ops or somethign.

[shockcoil]

Making one ability bad unless it gets the help of another ability isn't good design

[nugnugx]

Some T4s give +1 to offmaps now. Just incase you are going Joint ops or somethign.

err since when 'blitzkrieg' is an offmap ? 

[salan]

The commando piat change is a huge 'nerf' (if we want to use that word to describe the loss of power projection) compared to what it was previously.  you lose half your starting anti tank if you want a viable 25 pop call in which can use a glider at the start of the game.

[Tymathee]

but you haven't used all this...can we wait to call it overpowered or underpowered until it's actually used in game?

[nugnugx]

but you haven't used all this...can we wait to call it overpowered or underpowered until it's actually used in game?

sometimes you don't have to use them to know that it's wrong or not. You should know that Tym, as we are playing this long enough to know that a high number like 50% does not belong to t3. I've never seen a t4 with a 50% buff.

[salan]

ya that 50% is a good catch for sure.. insane fun for them !

[EliteGren]

Chemical fire buffs all Fire DOTs by 200% (that's triple damage).

[Evilnrg]

those shotguns eng are way to OP for their price

[Groundfire]

sometimes you don't have to use them to know that it's wrong or not. You should know that Tym, as we are playing this long enough to know that a high number like 50% does not belong to t3. I've never seen a t4 with a 50% buff.

I did the math for this on the BAR, the most common weapon you would find this buff applied to.

first of all, most moving acc. modifiers for the US weapons is 0.5 to begin with, so this buff cuts that in half

BAR moving acc. = .5
Thompson moving acc. = .5
MP44 movving acc. = .75

So this buff is equalizing the moving acc for most US automatic weapons vs. their wehr counter parts.

Second of all, apply this buff to the range accuracy while moving.

BAR acc. L/M/S = .2/.4/.75

BAR acc. moving L/M/S = .1/.2/.37

BAR acc. moving with Support training = .15/.3/.56 (this is what matters)

These are perfectly acceptable buffs, tailored to the composition of the army's upgradable weapons.

By comparison, most Axis weapons are better at moving acc. so this buff just makes them 50% better on the move, which you can see from the calculations, is still quite bad under most circumstances.

It may seem OP on paper, but its not. I dont even need to put it to practice, because i know how US weapons function and what a 50% buff to moving acc. is just a nice perk.

[Tymathee]

sometimes you don't have to use them to know that it's wrong or not. You should know that Tym, as we are playing this long enough to know that a high number like 50% does not belong to t3. I've never seen a t4 with a 50% buff.

I have, but nevertheless. I didn't mention the +50% I could go thru all of them but i dont think its worth the time to do so. numbers can play out differently than they look so i always give things a time to see how it works in game b4 i say anything.

Update: ^^^ thank u groundfire! looks can be deceiving. Trust the devs ffs.