Brits popping smoke is OP

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[nugnugx]

Here is a video of pe attack of 1 ac , 4 hotch , 1 marder , 1 50mm and 2 luft squads (1 gets killed and 2nd comes in half-way) that do almost no damage to  3 riflenade squads when they pop smoke at 0:17.
It took over a minute to make retreat everyone while it should be in 10 seconds.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JIFTBIBk1M




here is another of assault grens with mp44 getting owned by riflenades in smoke from point blank range.
(and i'm not even saying that my assault grens have +25% accuracy from t4)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ9rvV1kEdY

[Smokaz]

The smoke mechanic is kinda flawed in COH. Some type of play can be very ridicolous with smoke.

To fight in smoke you need smoke effective wepaons. Your company is lucky, SE is able to get this through flammen squads and incendary assault. You also can produce a lot of smoke yourself to take advantage of your own capabilities.

However non-doctrinally, PE is screwed against these type of builds. You have zero options against it because non-doctrinal PE simply doesnt get any kind of smoke effective weapons other than incendary grenade (good luck) and at grenades (derp).

Will it be rectified? Well, some eirr citizens of repute don't think PE need this. They look down on their shoes and mumble about mirroring of factions being bad when it's just 1 type of strat which one side has no response to. Smoke spam and smoke heavy tactics is pretty viable non-doctrinally for everyone except PE, because of low-scatter at guns and their non-doctrinal ballistic/flame weapons.

[Killer344]

luft also has smoke effective weapons.

[Smokaz]

Yep after tons of bitching

[shockcoil]

So really as long as TH has smoke effective weapons too it should be fine.

[Smokaz]

haha

[bbsmith]

You could have pushed them out of the smoke.

[nugnugx]

So really as long as TH has smoke effective weapons too it should be fine.

a big good luck to anyone who will be fighting riflenades with smoke in the future,


expect constant bitching on forum.


2nd video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ9rvV1kEdY

You could have pushed them out of the smoke.

that's not funny 

[11on2d6]

what some effective weapons does luft get?

[Unkn0wn]

AT Rifles

[11on2d6]

anti tank rifles are effective against infantry in smoke? forgive me if that seems a little...odd.

[salan]

I'm curious why this is making an appearance now after the fundamentals being in the mod for a long time.. did something change?  or someone just finally point out its do-able?

[Smokaz]

Sigh.. they get rifle grenades

[Unkn0wn]

And we finally gave Mhts smoke, before PE didn't even have smoke.

Also, yes, at rifles, just like RRs on AB suffer no penalties in smoke afaik.

[Spartan_Marine88]

Use rifle nades back? i fail to see the problem.

Or what about assault grens, the flamethrower wouldn't be affected and as it is they destroy all allied infantry.

[Smokaz]

I'm curious why this is making an appearance now after the fundamentals being in the mod for a long time.. did something change?  or someone just finally point out its do-able?

[EIRR HISTORIAN]

A BRIEF HISTORY OF EIRR PUFF PUFF



Starting with vcoh, mortar smoke was less popular because generally in 1v1s mortars played a pretty small role and only wehr and ami had it. WSC was a teching path not usually used for the mortar which vcoh players generally considered too risky to get because of the easy of which the weapon itself wast lost. It did have a small period where people were trying to demo the med bunker using smoke from a mortar and engineers. In the end this was frowned upon because fuel is so important for teching and the demo upgrade required as much fuel as building a barracks and a WSC together. On top of this the early 50 munitions for the demo and the risk  of losing a full engineer squad if something went wrong was not deemed optimal.

In EIRR a large part of it was people refusing to use the 60mm thus never playing around with smoke, then some players showed that RRs under smoke were close to unbeatable by anything and could just thrust their RRs up the bum of any axis tanks without fear of any kind of retaliation other than convieniently present and well placed flamers/grenades.

I'm sure if you dig around the archives from the last 3 years you'll find a immense amount of threads and posts spread around related to the 60mm being so bad. Seeing as this a while back got buffed, this started increased the american mortar presence. So now 60mm's were present.

Then came the noob advantages. People got it for free so even those people too focused with their regular plans to ever try mortar smoke had a chance to use the smoke. At first people played around with it unsure whether or not it was beneficial, and then suddendly people realized the impact of smoke and people discussed the use of it.

I know players like groundfire picked up on it when I after nailing him and Crazy's RR spam for the 667th time with my super buffed Fortress europe armored cars, flakvierlings and flak88. After listening through one of those epic rages about how it was imba and unbeatable, I told him that he should use mortar smoke. Suddendly it wasn't unbeatable anymore. From there it has just snowballed with the realization that smoke effective weapons generally harm your enemy without him being able to retaliate at all and in modern today's EIRR smoke is now mainstream and everyone and their dog uses it.

Very little is actually new - some vcoh to eirr transitions are being made in terms of mortars naturally being given smoke abilities across the board. Now in the current EIRR the big deal is whether it is a unavoidable path of development to mirror the capability of smoke production usage. Some people feel that mirroring itself carries with it to much precedent development that will drift over to other parts of EIRR while other's think mirroring itself carries with it positive things. In the midst of this you have something like mortar smoke and the implications of having a faction like PE that have zero mortar smoke capability facing off against stuff that generally is good against them (piats, riflenades, flamers, rrs) to begin with also working well with smoke.



[/EIRR HISTORIAN]

[shockcoil]

I wouldn't say smoke usage is quite mainstream yet although it certainly is much more prevailing than before. Even less are people who regularly use the mortar smoke, most people still don't have the patience or wherewithal to use mortar smoke instead preferring to use to more instant sources like US officers and now riflenades. Actually I think a large part of why we're only seeing riflenades being used now is that it used to be thought of as the inferior upgrade on tommies. Brits probably realised this to be not the case after being schooled by recent the addition fj riflenades (I know I was) and then picked it up themselves.

We've also seen a huge increase in smoke based doctrine abilities possibly because the devs too only recently realised their power but certainly this has affected smoke usage.

[Groundfire]

[EIRR HISTORIAN]

A BRIEF HISTORY OF EIRR PUFF PUFF

I know players like groundfire picked up on it when I after nailing him and Crazy's RR spam for the 667th time with my super buffed Fortress europe armored cars, flakvierlings and flak88. After listening through one of those epic rages about how it was imba and unbeatable, I told him that he should use mortar smoke. Suddendly it wasn't unbeatable anymore. From there it has just snowballed with the realization that smoke effective weapons generally harm your enemy without him being able to retaliate at all and in modern today's EIRR smoke is now mainstream and everyone and their dog uses it.

[/EIRR HISTORIAN]

Lol, you didnt suggest smoke to me, I picked it up on my own.

I even remember how surprised you were on how effective I used it. Part of that game can still be seen in my smoke tutorial.

Tbh, everyone should have smoke usefull weapons, but smoke should only be able to be fired by mortar units and noob advantages.

When you give them portability on rifles it just takes away the combined arms aspect of using smoke.

Real men use the 60mm for smoke. 

[Tymathee]

It's not OP, you just weren't ready for it and all your AI was vehicle based. All you needed was one mortar or infantry with grenades, or your own riflenades, or an IST (rapid fire is going to hit eventually by spread alone) a panther (run 'em over),

i also dont know if focus fire is affected by smoke, it's hard to tell.

so there's lots of options, just cuz a hotch, which is more of an infantry sniper than killer, and an armored car couldn't kill them doesn't mean its OP.

[nugnugx]

evs too only recently realised their power

smoke should be only on mortars , not on units that  LOL IPOP IWIN button.


You say that axis have also smoke ,  there are no axis units that can pop smoke like those riflenades.